Right, I already clarified that I just meant my examples… As I said already, I wrote that for something else; as it was a quick off-the-cuff, it amused me that the first examples I thought of were primarily of jigs.
@bensdad:
I remember that chapter. Definitely well-written.
I used the scare-quotes because when I refer to “the east clare version”, what I mean is that you’ll hear people talk about such things, and often it means a version of the tune that may not be able to be played with the “session” version, what I call a variant. But as I said in that paragraph, it’s not a clear-cut thing, so sometimes the different “versions” are just played in a different stylistic way (your example, doc spear, of a regular tune played in a Donegal style, but otherwise note-wise the same), and sometimes the “versions” are really distinct tunes, or distinct enough that they could be different tunes. I buried my wife isn’t really a “version” of the Frieze Britches - sure, they’re related, but they’re distinct tunes, and it’s not impossible to play them in a set together and keep them sounding distinct. That said, the version of I buried my wife in the O’Farrell’s collection (called “The Soup of Good Drink”) is obviously the same tune, but with a couple key inflection points different enough to make you notice that the feel has changed.
Cross-post with Tommy:
Speaking of Mr Hutchinson, I (and my wife) have learned his setting of the Silver Spear (much, much nicer) and I would absolutely have no problem telling everyone that it is his setting. It definitely didn’t get the kiss of death.
I have my own setting of the Yellow Wattle - it’s almost exactly the same, but the ending in the A part goes a bit differently. It came about through trying to learn the tune from what was playing in my head, and I happen to like what came out a lot better, so I’ll stick to it. I doubt anyone else will pick it up, but if they did I’d tell 'em exactly where it came from.
I think that it is exactly this process that makes different versions (in some cases) so you might as well be honest. If it does get the kiss of death it could be because
the listener just doesn’t like it
the listener thinks that he/she can only learn settings or versions from the “greats” (ie world-renowned, recorded, musicians) and if he/she can play a tune with you in a session any given week than you are automatically disqualified (for what it’s worth I think you’re great, Tom)
the setting isn’t that good - this could be because it’s no longer idiomatic, or it doesn’t flow well (which points back to #1), or … lots of reasons
just because it isn’t played that convincingly
the listener is more interested in generic “session” versions
the listener can’t really hear the difference
I think you have to be at a certain level of playing (well, really of learning and understanding, since lots of non-musicians get this as well) to relate to the idea of “versions”. Until then, you just play whatever you’ve learned, but after a while you start to see/hear different versions, and then you start to understand why something is different (fuzzy skeleton, key inflection points, style or bigger structural changes) and maybe you hear a new version that’s much nicer than the one you originally learned, so you re-learn the tune, and so on…
An exercise to help with this understanding would be to take some recording or some session version and compare it to the collected versions (O’Neill’s, etc) to see where the differences and/or similarities lie. Another exercise is to read the liner notes / make notes at a concert or session and when a musician talks about a different version, compare it to another recording.
Tom, well you do risk the opprobrium of the masses. I remember reading a review of Light Through the Leaves that commented on Tim Britton’s setting of the Earl’s Chair thusly:
Tim finishes the CD with the worst variations on The Earl’s Chair that I have ever heard.
I often think that the penchant for/urge towards personal settings is a function of where and who. Here in the wastelands one may not have the frequent corrective of a local tradition of playing that you’re trying to groove with. Correct me if I’m wrong Peter, but out there in West Clare wouldn’t playing well together by knowing and adhering to the local settings/versions be a more important consideration than showing off your chops? Not that there isn’t always some wiggle room of course.
Here, with so few local traditions with any depth of time behind them, we get away with murder.
Nico’s post brings me back to the ol’ day job. I work in the natural sciences field with botanists, zoologists and plant ecologists who do extensive ecological surveys. Part of cataloging the natural resources of my state (Minnesota, in the US) is to maintain and keep current, with the taxonomy and taxonomic relationships of many hundreds of species. As more and better information on species (including genetic analysis) is gathered relationships between then come into sharper focus. This continuous assessment (and re-assessment) drives people into two camps: lumpers and splitters.
I wonder how many appreciators of ITM (hate the acronym but I’m in a hurry here) are lumpers (all variations, variants, and settings of a tune are merely that tune in different forms, but have the same name. See Willie Clancy’s Concertina Reel vs. the standard setting of that tune in a different key vs. John Kelly’s Concertina Reel) and how many are splitters (i.e., Rip the Callico when set in G is called The Hero Reel). I suspect most folk have at some point have feet in both camps. I call those splimpers.
What are you?
ps. Nico: LOVE the term variant. My dream project would be to make a recording of nothing but variants. I think I would call it _Variants_™.
Playing with others you would play the going version (i.e. the one the company is playing, which doesn’t need to be the run of the mill version). When you play with people regularly you know what versions they are likely to play so you adapt. Which may mean you play one version with one crowd on one night and another on the next one with another crowd. Nothing unusual there. It’s always a sign the company listens (and adapts) well when there’s a clashing turn in a tune, you switch to what the other person(s) had in the repeat only to find the same clash occurring because they have changed to the phrase the way you had it the first time. Always good for a laugh, eventually it usually settles into the one version second time around. It doesn’t pay to be a wanker about these things here (or anywhere for that matter).
I love when that cat, mouse, -and accommodation- happens. It is one of the most endearing, rewarding and enjoyable aspects of playing with people. A wordless intimacy.
It’s probably even more satisfying when you’re playing with someone and you both sail into the same variation or start the same tune you haven’t played for ages. Synchronicity like that can be a great boost.
i find that i sometimes change a phrase of written music to make the tune playable on the chanter, particularly where there are big intervals between the notes going from high to low or low to high
i think it’s possible to have a slightly idiosyncratic way of playing a tune when you are playing for your own amusement at home, but be able to play it more conventionally when with others
On his album, Eliot Grasso plays a “pipery” version of the Shetland tune “Miss Susan Cooper” which doesn’t sound horrendous in a session full of people playing the standard Shetland version (yes, I have tried it..sort of… the timing is different so you have to adjust Eliot’s version a bit). But if you started the tune playing it the way Eliot does, it would take a while for the Shetland-style players to figure it out, if they ever did.
I do a lot of folding of octaves on tunes that fiddlers play out of my range, or change the key if something is in a key that doesn’t suit the pipes (like Fmaj). Or play something that doesn’t totally suck when a fiddler might jump from the high D to high A. Are those “piping” versions?
In the real world, I don’t worry about whether they are versions or variations or related any more than is needed for purely pragmatic purposes. For instance, I know better than to start the Maids of Holywell in a busy session because it will become the Bucks of Oranmore.
Lumpers and splitters eh, Tommy? I’ve told this story (which is an aside, normal service being resumed shortly) hereabouts before. I was looking for a Paeonia Tenuifolia, and found, through The Plantfinder (a UK publication for … um … finding plants) that there was a nursery listed as selling them near where I live. I went through the door and asked the guy for my plant. Before he even said “Hello”, he said “Are you a lumper or a splitter?” Splitters apparently think there are quite a few different Paeonia Tenuifolias.
… and it’s moments like that in sessions that I live for. Sometimes such ‘moments’ have seemed to last for an hour or more. Truly magical.
'Sfunny, but, with me, they’ve happened more with people I haven’t played with all that much than with people I have … hmmm …
Indirectly answering Doc Silver:
The Maid in the Cherry Tree (aka the Curragh Races) - There’s the Tommy Reck (or “piper”) version and there’s the “fiddle” version (which is more or less how O’Neill had it from McFadden). The main difference is the B part, whether you pedal to the A or the C (respectively).
Amazon has it from $55 - $223 second hand, and $218 New, or a whopping $8.95 for the kindle version. Needles to say, after downloading a free kindle reader for my android Phone, I bought the $8.95 version. A very enjoyable read so far. Thanks for the referal.
be found in Just Move Your Fingers?
I’ve told this story (which is an aside, normal service being resumed shortly) hereabouts before. I was looking for a Paeonia Tenuifolia, and found, through The Plantfinder (a UK publication for … um … finding plants) that there was a nursery listed as selling them near where I live. I went through the door and asked the guy for my plant. Before he even said “Hello”, he said “Are you a lumper or a splitter?” Splitters apparently think there are quite a few different Paeonia Tenuifolias.