They are: Michael Padian Leo and Tom Rowsome, Eddie Potts
Agreed, great photo. Where did you get it?
Do you reckon wearing black tie and slicking back my hair will improve my ability to let it rip with difficult triplets?
Couldn’t hurt… but it might not get you any dates. 
Here:
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rowsome/uilleann_quartet.htm
I would have listed the photographer for this photo, but I have not been able to find out whose shot it is. I assume the Rowsome family retains ownership/copyright.
t
Strikes me as a ludicrous and utterly artificial distinction, and at least as spurious as Flood’s alleged linguistic creationism.
He may well have invented the term uilleann pipes, but it is equally possible that ‘union pipes’ is an anglicisation of ‘uilleann’. Politics is often near the surface in people’s willingness to believe one or the other.
A fluent Irish speaker and professor of Irish folklore has pointed out to me that the apparently very English surname Settright (meaning a maker of paving-stones) which occurs in County Clare is in fact an anglicisation of the name Mac Shitric (AKA McKittrick in other parts of the country).
The same may well have happened in the case of uilleann/union, and the fact that union apparently appeared first in print doesn’t really prove anything.
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Man-oh-Maaa, that Tom Rowsome “Tayloresque” set sure reminds me of my Tayloresque set, as far as the chanter the reg keys and ends, the main stock, etc. Yeah lost the point of the discussion: the transition(s) from “Union” small bores to Big Bore sets… and WHAT NAME(S) to call them? I vote for " BIG BORES"?..were they made simultaneously on both sides of the Atlantic Pond? Well sure, but NOT with the exact same bore design. Even Willie Rowsome (Leo’s Da) was more of a big bore C SHARP maker ( I even worked on that C#Willie Rowsome set that used to belong to Joe Hinton in San Diego, that Mickey Zekley bought for $75, back in 1972) which now belongs to Cait Reid (the fiddler). I have seen the other (presumably LATER) W. Rowsome’s that were concert D (more or less) BIG BORES. I’d love for Ken McLeod to wade into this NAMING THING, as it was HIS suggestion to make these distinctions, on the Vol.2 Sean Reid CD ROM…Anyways…speaking of names, I love the juxtaposition of Rowsome, and “Tayloresque” in the same sentence! (See first line above). MY NAME IS:
sean folsom… P.S. Yeah Peadar Flynn had the body of a C set in Boxwood and he had about 50 chanters for it, as well. Any of them, could have been ORIDGINAL. S.F.
I can’t believe ye just asked that question!! 
.Ignorance is bliss as they say so I hate to be the bearer o bad tidings… but the Music Halls of yesteryear existed in Britain,and some believe that they were exported to America with the flood of immigrants in the mid 1800’s.Not an unreasonable supposition.There are endless reference sources but to save ye the hastle then take a peak at these two sites…
http://www.musichallcds.com/music_hall_history.htm
quote frae above link
…The growth of the Halls was rapid and spread across Britain with the first great boom in the 1860s, so that by 1870, 31 large halls were listed in London and 384 in the rest of the country.
and…
Although generally regarded as a particularly British institution, two other countries, namely France and the USA, also have a music hall tradition. In France this was of a more sophisticated middle class nature, whilst in America vaudeville developed on parallel lines to music hall in Britain.
Another link…
http://www.musicals101.com/musichall.htm
a quote frae above link…
the first music halls appeared in suburban London.
and…
In the United States, two forms of musical revue developed during the mid-1800s. One was bawdy and the other was the embodiment of racism, but both flourished for decades and were the precursors of musical theatre in America.
Sean wrote…“The only Irish set(made in Ireland)of the Taylors, that was reputedly made BEFORE they moved to New York.”..
but it was still an Irish set so I am not at all clear what your point is.. 
In actuality the Taylors were taught how to make the pipes by their father a piper,pipemaker,and organ builder…“Billy” Taylor born about 1830 grew up in the trade of making pipes and playing them.He migrated to America and New York in 1872..Ref:Irish Minstrels and Musicians.O’Neill 1913.pge 160/161 …
This would make Billy about 42 years of age when he left Ireland for New York.In 1872 this would have been considered quite old and we can confidently assume that if Billy was apprenticed to his father then it would have been frae an early age.If we say 12(not at all unusual in those days) that would give him 30 years of pipemaking experience afore he left Ireland.I think it unreasonable to say that he made only one set in that time.Although we also have to take cognisance that the bulk of his work may have been organ building.
Given that O’Neill says.."The rapid decline of pipe music in Ireland in the third quarter of the nineteenth century determined William Taylor and his stepbrother,Charles,to emigrate to America…"Ref:Irish Minstrels and Musicians.O’Neill 1913.pge 160/161.(for the academically minded or pedantically minded of ye…) 
The implication is that as it was the decline in pipe music and not organ building, then he depended to a larger extent on his Irish Pipes for a living.
There well may be only one set recorded but that doesnae prove a thing and common sense would dictate otherwise.Especially if we follow the argument above.To think,suggest or imagine that he suddenly developed his creative skills when he got to America and started churning out pipes is not credible.Also I suspect he would have had a huge culture shock when arriving in New York frae sleepy (by comparison) Drogheda in Louth.Not least because of course he may well have not been used to the large Music halls,certainly not in Drogheda,that he would have found in New York.But he would have had the same problem if he went East instead of West and landed in London or Liverpool or Glasgow…what would we now be twittering about?London Irish Pipes? Liverpool Irish Pipes? Glasgow Irish Pipes?absolute twaddle…
As Joseph pointed out we have America to thank for Burgers… the Irish Pipes ?I think not
Uilliam
On the music hall topic: True perhaps of Britain, but as far as I can see, not true of Ireland in the same period. The Taylors were making wide-bore stuff well before such “music halls” could have had a direct impact in Ireland, as far as I can ascertain. There were plenty of reasons why piping in Ireland was in a precarious/unstable state at that period, however, e.g. the famine and subsequent emigration. But I get the impression that around the turn of the century there was some kind of mini-revival of piping in the nascent “entertainment industry”; this would account for the postcards of young female pipers (“pretty little irish piper” etc.) that make an appearance then. Perhaps there was a stage piping presence prior to this period of course, but I suppose I’m suggesting that a shift in the center-of-gravity of piping in Ireland may have occurred around that time. What’s not clear to me is what the social and economic forces behind the (apparent) rise of public/stage piping in Ireland were. Such pipers would indeed have benefited from, indeed would have required louder sets just as they did in the USA.
Rather than a wholesale shift from flat/quiet pipes to wide-bore pipes, however, I suggest that the (limited) demand for big-bore pipes was initially met by imports of Taylor sets from America, and that the handful of pipemakers in Ireland followed suit in the early 20th century, which seems to match what’s known about surviving late 19th/early 20th century sets. As house dances and piping patronage declined (due to famine, emigration, economic shifts, and finally, independence and the consequent disruptive effect on gentry), stage piping would have become the dominant piping activity for awhile.
Unproven, but I hope a plausible description of the situation based on the available facts.
On the union/uilleann topic:
The same may well have happened in the case of uilleann/union, and the fact that union apparently appeared first in print doesn’t really prove anything.
It’s quite true that this is unproven. However, the fact that NO print reference to ‘uilleann’[1] has been identified prior to Flood’s assertion (and the fact that many of Flood’s other assertions have been disproven) makes the postulate about “union” being a corruption of “uilleann” seem very dubious. Anyhow, don’t take my word for it - read the publications of Sean Donnelly, currently the foremost authority on the history of the pipes in Ireland.
Bill
[1] other than the Shakespeare “Merchant of Venice” reference given by Flood himself, which has been totally discredited and was a serious anachronism besides.
Au contraire…wot about the Dublin Music hall in Temple Bar?That was there before 1742 and I am sure there were not a few less salubrious joints…
Uilliam
hehe, you’re saying Dublin == Ireland?
seriously, I’ll look into the Dublin Music Hall history to see what turns up. I still doubt that the music halls had as significant a place in the musical life of Ireland as they did in, uhh, “mainland Britain” due to economic and social factors (less industrialization, etc.), but it’d be interesting to know more about their demographics.
I’ve got a publication here called “The Music Profession in Britain Since the Eighteenth Century”, by Ehrlich, but as I recall it has very little information on Ireland.
Bill
I know what music hall is/was/were. Give me one instance in print of any Irish piper playing in one. Any bagpiper for that matter. Perhaps they did, I’d be interested to know! But certainly there are far more accounts of pipers on the stage in America. I don’t think it was the impetus for the Rowsomes or O’Meally to enlarge the bores and switch to concert pitch. Their customers mostly wanted to play on the street or at fairs and the like.
There was an outcry about Irish pipers being so debased in the public’s eye that they were reduced to playing music hall songs, if you want a connection of a sort. Dinney Delaney ran a dance hall and Pat Mitchell’s W. Rowsome pipes are said to be Dinney’s, that could be a case of a piper wanting more volume.
I’ve seen a few modern references to an “American” style of piping - Touhey and company, very staccato. Tom Busby always (the student of one of them) called that the Connaught style of piping though. I always wondered where all the homegrown Taylor pipes were myself - since they never stamped their stuff in America perhaps all the pre-emigration Taylor sets in Ireland are simply the old style of block-mounted set, like Joe McLaughlin’s. They did like long block mounts instead of using a block for the pin and then a seperate guide block, and I think I’ve seen pics of a few chanters with blocks like that.
Bill I didnae say anything about the musical life of Ireland having a significant impact via the music halls.(although that is debateable if ye take Thomas Moore and his melodies,not a few of which would have found their way onto the popular stage)…nor was I comparing Ireland to Britain.
That is your misreading of what I did say which is that the Music Halls started in Britain not the United Kingdom..the difference being that Ireland then, and now in the North, is termed the United Kingdom whereas Britain comprises of England Scotland and Wales.Please don’t put
in erroneous statements especially when I didnae say it… thus muddying the point completely…I also didnae say that Dublin mirrored Ireland as ye infer,but ye can’t deny it would have had an impact of some sort anyway!
To take your point to another level lets not forget the impact London has had on the musical and dancing scene in Ireland from quite early on.The figure dancing that we know, was invented by the Gaelic League, in London in 1898, as a direct answer to the dancing that was being introduced frae America!The Sessiun (another made up word)started in London in the late 1950’s.That is two givens that has impacted quite dramatically on Irish Musicality so who is to say frae this distance in time that the music halls didnae impact on Irish Music,not yersel methinks 
I find it somewhat of interest that ye contradict yersel with the above frae your earlier post 
On the music hall topic: True perhaps of Britain, but as far as I can see, not true of Ireland in the same period. The Taylors were making wide-bore stuff well before such “music halls” could have had a direct impact in Ireland, as far as I can ascertain. Perhaps there was a stage piping presence prior to this period of course, but I suppose I’m suggesting that a shift in the center-of-gravity of piping in Ireland may have occurred around that time. What’s not clear to me is what the social and economic forces behind the (apparent) rise of public/stage piping in Ireland were. Such pipers would indeed have benefited from, indeed would have required louder sets just as they did in the USA.
How can ye say with such authority that the Taylors were making wide bore stuff(presumably ye mean the pipes made in America)well before any impact in Ireland!.That is incredulous.Ireland was a backwater if ye like but it wasnae backward.Of course there was travel between Britain and Ireland much more so than travel between Ireland and America so the awareness of music hall culture, for lack of a better term, would have existed.Maybe not widespreadly but it certainly would have existed, especially as by the time Taylor went to America the Music Halls had been established for at least 50 years anyway, and to dismiss it out of hand is not really fair.
Uilliam
The best estimate we have is that the Taylors started making wide bore pipes in the 1870’s. My assertion is that stage piping in music halls was not significant enough in the decades immediately prior to that period to have an impact on pipemaking trends.
My guess is that stage piping in music halls in Ireland was about NIL in the 1845 to 1875 period, but I know of no study that has been done on the topic one way or another.
I think my statements have been entirely consistent on the matter, but perhaps I have not been clear.
Bill
[quote="Kevin L. Rietmann
I know what music hall is/was/were. Give me one instance in print of any Irish piper playing in one. Any bagpiper for that matter. [/quote]
**Calm down lad…**you asked for and got exactly some references for music halls which is what I was referring to.
A negative does not prove a positive as ye should know, because we have no positive proof of anything doesn’t mean it it didn’t exist.Where would religion be if ye believed that?
Anyway I digress..if ye want to be pedantic then so be it..
Edinburgh Evening Courant,4 December 1841 advert for concert on 13 December,reviewed in the Courant on 16 December 1841.3 January 1842 2nd Concert,10 January 1842,3rd Concert and 24 January 1842 4th Concert..given by Gandsey he also did concerts in Glasgow.
Ye can look it up yersel …why such hostility on what is a very mute subject?
Uilliam
Bill the best any of us can do is guess I suppose, but I think NIL is a bit extreme.Thats my guess anyway.
Uilliam
Eh? This is research, not metaphysics. I don’t want to simply have faith in something. Otherwise you’re just Flooding the world with misinformation.
I just want some hard facts. Bill mentioned Sean Donnelly, who’s what you want in a researcher - a man who’ll read a year’s issues of an old newspaper looking for info.
Reg Hall, again not exactly an amateur in this, is putting together a history of Irish music in London, which will cover some of this ground more conclusively than us armchair enthusiasts can.
As it happens I looked up the piece in O’Neill’s book about Thomas Garoghan, London piper - when he played in Dublin in 1912 “according to one account, “The performance was splendid and refined but the tone of his instrument was too weak to be effective in a large concert hall.”” O’Neill also mentions “the crowning glory of his life was his eight months’ engagement with the “Shemus O’Brien” opera company at His Majesty’s Theatre, London, some years ago. Always spry and active, he has kept the Irish pipes to the front for forty-five years, and in a country in which there was said to be an Irish piper for every day in the year less than two generations ago, he is one of the very few remaining.”
Garoghan looks to be pictured with an Egan set - if the notion that Egan’s pipes were a shade more powerful than Kenna and Coyne’s stuff is true, you could speculate that he enlarged his bores a bit in demand for stage players, thus preceding the Taylors - and people have told me there are aspects of Taylor pipes that show an Egan influence (Egan was long considered the greatest of the early pipemakers, too).
The painting of Gandsey shows him playing a 2 reg set of the old style. “Concert” meant something very different back then, often much more intimate than what we’ve come to expect. Ceol na Eireann has accounts of a concert by O’Hannigan around the same time - his Coyne set is in the Dublin museum - apparently it did the job well enough.
Taylors also made Highland pipes, as did the Coynes.
I don’t know why we are running around in circles as ye seemed to have “proved” the point that I made earlier with the very clarification ye were looking for thankyou..
That is ,if I remember rightly, ye wanted to know if there was Irish pipe playing in music/concert halls( the term is interchangeable)…
Ye proved that yersel.!!With the snippets above which I have highlighted..
I said and I suppose I had better repeat it in case any one else has missed the very simple point that…the concert halls that were supposedly the catalyst for the louder wider bore existed over here at exactly the same time as in America and exactly the same problems were being encountered. Note.. Exactly the same problems…thats all, I didnae say anything else just stated a simple fact…ie.That the sets were hard to hear..that in itself speaks volumes about the size of the halls…Concert, the term that is, for a gathering of the paying public,(note it would be in the players interest to play for as large a gathering as possible thus increasing the size of his purse at the end of the evening).. could be for a small crowd or a large crowd no different now to then and the public halls here and in London and Dublin could be every bit as big as those in New York so what is this all about?
In your study of O’Neills ye could have looked at Daniel O’Mahoney b.London 1837 (Its just above the Garoghan entry on page 284) and ye would have another example of an Irish Piper playing the Stage in London.His stage name being Michael O’Hara and yet another William O’Kelly who played with “O’Hara"in concert…how much proof do ye need?Or is there something else going on here.
I really do object to your insinuation that I am flooding ye with misinformation and for the record I wasnae asking ye to believe anything, but because ye can’t necessarily prove something doesnae mean it doesn’t exist…ye couldnae prove anything 5 mins ago cos ye didn’t think it existed thats why ye ordered me to give ye a reference source for Irish Pipers playing in Britain… your quote "Give me one instance in print of any Irish piper playing in one. Any bagpiper for that matter.”…however on doing a little research into the reference I gave ye for O’Neills book.. lo.. wisdom cometh to ye…I wish I could believe that but ye still have to have a little dig by bringing Reg into it..red herring or what!!Is it because I mentioned London twice re 1898 and then 1950?Do ye not believe me ?Is that what ye are saying?I am not an armchair enthusiast, I am sitting on a not particularly comfortable computer chair trying to be helpful so lets practice principles above personalities…
Please Kevin lets stick to the script and not go pointscoring..it is so unnecessary.
Slán Go Foill
and I wish ye peace and happiness
Uilliam
"Union pipes’ were played on London stages as early as 1786.
The Egan set in Chicago has a pretty narrow bore - I don’t see the set ‘set up’ for volume and that would be a ‘late’ set for the late Egan who dies around 1860.
So, the FON observation on the development of the wider-bore chanter might be a stretch but with a good kernel of truth. Thomas Kerrigan did own and perform at a pub that also had a nice stage. And that’s where his Taylor set was made - at Kerrigan’s location in NY on 42nd and 8th.
Flat set production goes into an incredible decline after the Taylors were on the scene.