On the London Uilleann Pipes Club website it says that Uilleann pipes are Native to both Ireland England, but they died out in England. This is not a claim I have seen elsewhere, I thought they were an exclusively Irish in origin.
The earliest tutor is out of London for the pastoral pipes. Pastoral pipes were made in Scotland as well in the 18th century. It is usually considered that the Irish developed the chanter with the foot-joint removed, as the leading tone was not needed, and added to the number of regulators. Someone else should correct me as needed. I was discussing this with a couple of young fellas from Donegal in a pub here, while sitting with Paddy Keenan, between sets. One guy got irate at the notion that the English had anything to do with the pipes, so he blurted out,“sure, the English invented the toilet seat too, but it took an Irishman to put the hole in it”.
Ted
Hilarious! (no offense please, Englishmen)
An Englishman trying out his new Irish toilet seat.
(sorry AlanB!)
Hi folks
There is a wonderful book on the history of the bagpipe titled “The Story of Music,Bagpipes” by M Gratton Flood.
It has a huge amount of detailed info on all the pipes,makers and players in history. I suggest you check this old gem out from the library! If you can’t find it, I would be glad to quote some from my cherished copy.
The “pipes” originated in ancient Sumaria around 3,000BCE and the Romans(English)had thier version too.
There is also a legend of Norse raiders, on an ancient tablet of about 250BCE, that carried off an Egyptian princess named “Scota” and brought her to Pictland. It is believed that she brought the pipes with her.( In every legend there is a seed of truth.)
No offence Ted,we English are known for our toilet humour. I used to drink ‘Toilet duck’ - It drove me clean round the bend! 
That picture shows what we inthe North east of England refer to as a ‘Netty’,which in the old days wouldn’t be complete without squares of newspaper hanging from a nail (no,they weren’t put there to read!) 
Some people even say that the GHB was originally an Irish bagpipe. But had 1 tenor drone instead of 2.
Here is a reference.
http://www.doyle.com.au/great_irish_warpipe.htm
Samuel
Hey all:
My understanding is that the bagpipe was first noted archaeologically in Africa, (although Thomas has noted Sumeria and 3000 B.C.) and that the Roman Empire had spent some quality time there checking out the local scene, the wimmin and the drinking. And, of course, laying waste to as much land and cultures as they could.
It has been suggested (and I just know I’m gonna start a fight here) that the Irish, although never conquered by the Romans, did join their legions and went to Africa, heard the music, liked it and brought back the pipes, as well as much of the fundaments of the musical structure. They stopped off in the middle east, drank and smoked and listened and brought back the rhythms from there.
So, the pipes as a musical instrument came from Africa, as well as some of the musical structure, but the pulse, the beat, rhythm, or whatever you want to call it, came mostly from the middle east.
One of my aims musically is to meld these things together, not unlike some of the other fusion bands out there. Somewhat heretical on a forum dedicated to the ‘pure drop’, I know, but music is what it is, a moving and dynamic reflection of the life around us.
If I could whip out all the stuff I’ve read and point meaningfully to what other people have written on these subjects, I would, but I haven’t worked on a scholastic paper in ten years so my memory for old references is a bit rusty.
I hope I don’t offend anyone by saying any of this, I love Irish music as it is and always have, I just like the idea of blending it with other, equally ancient musics.
Mark
the bathroom seems like the perfect place to debate the origin of the pipes . In such a place , it cant go on for long . I hope . Unless your stuck .lol
<<music is what it is, a moving and dynamic reflection of the life around us.>>
I like that, great quote.
Jeff
well, it’s been argued that the Celts as a whole may have originated in the north middle east. i would think it would be rather unlikely that a snippet of culture brought back from foreign lands by mercenaries would amount to anything more than a novelty for about 10 years. I find it far more likely that trade and whatnot from the nearby, wealthy, prosperous Roman Empire might have imported the bagpipes - which seems far more likely than the whole mercenary idea. IMHO
The London Pipers Club says…I wouldnna take what they say as Gospel . Ron (the secretary) will tell you that they have borrowed most of their stuff for the website from others.
London has been full of Irish since London began and for that matter Britain as a whole has had a millenia of intercourse with us some good a lot plain bad.
So the Union Pipes with one regulator being noted about 1740 remain uniquely Irish..
The English have a very irritating habit of claiming everything for themselves when its good and knocking it when its not aka Irish Gold medallists from the Republic are oft quoted as being British in the press when they are nothing of the sort.The GHB is not uniquely Scottish and of course the Irish had them.The early Scottish Bagpipe had two drones only too so nothing new there!
Erin go Bragh
Liam 
Lorenzo,
Absolutely no offence taken, I’m Cornish, so! (Yes, we’re the one’s who design bagpipes from rude carvings on church benches).
I don’t think there’s enough historical proof to say where the pipes originated, but, as historians continually guess and re-guess about events gone afore, anything is possible, though this is a bit like arguing darwinism with creationists.
I once heard that the UPs were initially a Scots invention…
Perhaps god put them here to test our faith??
Alan
finbar furey says that the Irish invented bagpipes, keeping the uilleann pipes for themselves & giving the highland pipes to the Scottish as a joke
Although bagpipes in many guises are found throughout the reaches of what was once the Roman Empire (Tunisia as well!), I came across a very intriguing bit of info: there is an ethnic group in northern Turkey that are very fond of their particular bagpipe, and are noted by other groups for the distinction of having the retroflexive “R” in their speech. This is also found in Irish Gaelic (Scots, too? Don’t know). I don’t remember the name of this people, but it set me to wondering if they could be remnants of the Galatians (a Celtic people) that settled in Turkey.
Best,
N
Re origin of pipes, there’s an article I read in the National Geographic, Oct., 1953, about the healthy Hunzas, an isolated tribe living in the Himalayas, where the mountains reach eastward to Tibet and stretch west to Afghnistan. When the article was written, Pakistan controlled the Hunza’s foreign relations, defense, and communications, although Hunza controlled it’s own internal affairs.
The author relates many interesting facts about the Hunzas, and was one of the first western journalists to visit the tribe and document many of the rumors, like their health, diet, and life style. The following is but one paragraph from the article, page 517, and describes their interesting music and instruments.
“The next day was devoted to dancing. In the morning old men performed cerimonial figures, tripping lightly to the tune of pipe and drum. One red bearded gentleman, who told us he was 98, did a number which resembled a sailor’s hornpipe.”
These traditions had been uninterrupted for centuries. Kind of a strange thought that Pakistani pipes may have been played before the Scottish or Irish got ahold of them…conjecture of course.
Unfortunately Grattan Flood is considered as very unreliable. He ‘invented’ the name Uilleann pipes based on fabricated historical evidence. The name was never seen or used before Flood’s day. It’s a great book to read though, if you take it with a sufficient pinch of salt.
The general concensus in the more recent books I’ve read is that the Celts originated as an identifiable tribe in the area of the Carpathian mountains which is in modern day Romania/Transylvania(Vampipers?). They moved across Europe and towards the east. Some say they had trade established with the Phonecians. They did manage to sack Rome and Athens at various points in their history. The Galatians refered to in the bible were indeed a settlement of Celts. Most of central Europe was Celtic well until the current epoch. Ceasar in his Gallic wars mistakenly separates the Gauls and Germans as being two different cultures. In truth they were more closely related linguisticly and artisticly than he could have imagined. Given the brown-nosing nod to all things Roman, previous historians(Londinum 
) assumed all Roman statements of history to be factual and continued the tradition by claiming preeminance among Rome’s former collonies.
As to the bagpipe itself I don’t believe it had to have only one place of origin. While it could have been passed from people to people thruogh passing armies or traders, it is just as likely that various bagpipes developed (nearly) simultaniosly as a natural progression of the reed pipe - shawm, oboe bombard etc. Figure the unsung heroes of antiquity who tired of circular breathing having the inspriation to attatch a bag to make the job easier. 
Where the Uilleann pipe is concerned, I’ve also heared claims that the French Musette may have some role in the developement of the Irish and Northumbrian smallpipe.
When I get off my dead but, I post the name and publisher of the book on Celtic history I was refering to. It was from a huge art travelling exhibit (early 1990"s?)on Celtic art and history. It’s a pricy book but well worth having.
When I recently visited the Bagpipe Museum at Morpeth,Northumberland I saw English Bagpipes of various types.Of course,our native Northumbrian Pipes were well represented,but I recall seeing ‘Lancashire Pipes’ which have been revived by a Pipemaker who’s name escapes me.The museum DID have a Uilleann set made by Robert Reid of North Shields,on Tyneside in the early 19th century.
I think it is very much agreed that the development of the Union pipes as we know them goes back to the elder Kenna. One very early example from the 1780 s can for your convenience be seen in my avatar to the left. Concert pitch, four drones [one in A] and the one regulator, the baritone.
Sean Donnelly’s ‘A century of pipemaking 1770-1870 : New light on the Kennas and Coynes. – Journal of the Sean Reid society vol 2, march 2002 is a monumental piece of research into the early origins of the union pipes and probably the best written on the subject
I’m sorry if anyone was irritated at my statements. The Silver Pipes of Ur in Sumaria(now Kuwait)are documented as the oldest surviving single reed divergent pipes in existance by many authors. There is speculation on age from 3500 to 2800 BCE .
I have also read in recently translated documents that these types of pipes were brought to Sumaria by way of “The Silk Road” trading caravans from China and are related to the Chinese “Hichikiri” style pipes(although “Hichikiri” is a Japanese name).
The next evidence is a tera-cotta figurine from 1st century egypt of a panpiper using a seperate bag and single drone pipe. Scholars have tied the progression of the bagpipe directly to the Organ or Hydrualus and the two types of Shepherds pipes,parallel(Zummara) and divergent(Aulos/Launnedas).
All things said,the Uilleann pipes of today are a very recent development with thier keyed regulators and 2 octave range(high tech reeds). The Scottish Lowland pipes and the older Uillean pipes are the same just like the Irish War Pipes and Highland pipes are the same. I believe good natured “bragging” between countries about who was first is the only true difference.
Nanohedron is correct about the “Galations”. They were a defeated Celtic tribe driven from their lands and given a new home as mercenaries under the Turks. Hannibal and his elephants used these mercenaries to cross the mountains to attack the Greeks.