Uilleann Pipes wood, mounts, and tone

Uilleann Pipes
21

I’ve thought about that a bit. I am considering not using a fabric pipebag and only having the leather show. But if i want i can make my own.

Green fabric looks great with orange, red, black, or maple colored woods, (basically any color)
Deep wine-red looks good with gray or black.
Blue looks good with black, and also with orange, not so much red.
But also the very tone and shade of the color is essential important to what other colors will be mixing with it.
Most likely i would be using brass metalwork on the pipes.
Silver looks very smart with snakewood, but cocobolo doesn’t look the greatest with brass.
Also, maple, myrtle, or light colors, with moose antler mounts, look ok with brass or silver.

22

Highland piper - I can read extremely well and you are being very selective in your quote. What you actually said was this

Now some woods are unsuitable for woodwinds, on account of not being stable, but that’s an entirely different issue

Being a model maker (flying scale models) I can tell you that Balsa is a hardwood (this surprises many people) and is also stable so according to your accurately reproduced statement Balsa would be a suitable wood

Yes it would be unsuitable and if you could pursuade a maker to use it it would sound pretty dead so your sweeping statement

The material that woodwinds are made of contributes so little to the tone that scientists can’t measure the difference. That’s not to say that there is no difference at all, simply that it can’t be measured or quantified.

is nonsense as materials they are made from do matter

John

23

materials they are made from do matter

So who is going to wheel out the concrete flute, as is the custom at this point in these discussions?

24

I have a concrete chanter that plays beautifully, but I could never find quite the right bag pattern and colour to go with it, so I never use it.

25

Ron Jeremy performs with a concrete flute.

RORY

26

:laughing: I’m sorry, I can’t help myself. That’s hilarious. Basic black, I think. Perhaps with some nice highway-stripe-yellow fringe?

But seriously, Wyatt, if you order up a new set you’re going to have several years to wait with most anybody. Sure, get on a list or two (and be fair – let the maker know you’re on more than one list; you won’t get to the details beyond the key, the range of the set, and maybe the tonewood until later anyway), but be aware there’s a VERY good chance your feelings may change in that period. Especially as you meet other pipers, take a turn on their sets, gather information about which sets might be easier to reed, etc.

In the interim, just get something decent and start playing so you’ll be able to make an informed decision about the most important thing: whether the set suits HOW you want to play. Tone, ergonomics, reedability, bore size, “personality” – they’re all HUGE factors in whether you love your pipes enough to get any good at playing them. And to get any good, you’ve got to put in lots of time. That’s when whether your chanter strains your hands or the reed’s too soft/stiff really matters much more than the finish on the keys or which wood you use or whether the mounts are light or dark.

Again, one of the makers whose list you’re on might have a customer who’s selling their old set, etc. and that way you can at least decide you like the tone, ergonomics, reedability, etc.

Most of us are musicians from other disciplines, too, and sure, we all have our dream sets. But once you start playing, your dreams may evolve. It might be as simple as you decide you prefer stainless keywork to brass, but it might be that you stumble across a certain player whose sound you love, and you decide you want a set like his or hers. In that way, having to wait for a while on a maker’s list can be a blessing!

P.S. Two keys work grand for me.

27

I support all of Cathy’s comments – you’re being given some very good advice by her, by Tommykleen, and others, to become better acquainted with this very, very peculiar instrument before committing to any highly particular, customized set.

I’m a former music teacher who’s played and taught orchestral brasswind instruments for over 30 years. And I can tell you that none of that hard-won experience and skill has helped me to understand the very idiosyncratic physics and mechanics of the Uilleann pipes.

What I have learned about this (recently, through even harder-won experience) is that reeds make by far the biggest difference in how any pipe sounds, and even have a huge impact on how well in tune the instrument is with itself. This is not what I would have expected, especially the tuning aspect.

Anyhow, good luck and happy piping to you!

P.S. Elmek’s provocations aside, it’s been my experience with both woodwind and brasswind instruments, that between different materials having even roughly similar density and hardness, there’s no huge difference in tone quality. I’m told that Ethel Merker, a well-known French horn player in Illinois, used to demonstrate this to students by repeating a tune on a horn that had interchangeable bell flares made of different alloys – nobody could ever tell which was which in blind tests.

An instrument’s geometry, its maker’s skill, and especially the player’s skill, are what matter most. But having said all that, if you really like how a given material looks and feels (and if your maker of choice is able to produce quality goods with it) then of course those are compelling reasons to choose it!

P.P.S. Like the oak and the maple, the balsa is a deciduous tree, but the wood itself is not “hard” by any definition used outside botany. Actually I doubt that any but the most boneheaded botanist would call it a hardwood, either – balsa is less dense even than cork. :wink:

28

:laughing: concrete flute. :blush:

an informal sampling I took on another forum showed that a majority of USA musicians came to bagpipes after playing another instrument to some competent degree. but that has nothing to do with Ron, Balsa, or fabric colours.

However, your bag material does affect your instruments overall timbre (imho much more than the style of turnings etc), and if you cover your bag with corduroy, felt, wool or something like this, it will absorb.
Also I think there are other USA pipemakers, that you havent mentioned in your list, that are well worth looking into.

added: its realistic to expect this to be a 7-10 year long thing, from committing to buy a $et of pipes, to actually be physically holding them, and then to obtain sufficent fluency playing them in order to express/interpret your individual musicianship. Strongly suggest using some kind of equinox-based astronomical calendar that incorporates glyphs and large upright rocks. :thumbsup:

29

Somewhere, in one of my boxes of odds and ends there is a balsa wood tongue for a composite drone reed. I never took the experiment to a conclusion but the reed did work, as I recall. Balsa wood varies greatly in density and hardness.

30

A friend of mine is one of the best highland pipe teachers in my area and he had a new student come to him who was a high school band teacher. The band teacher told him that he can learn to play any new instrument to professsional level in 4 months. My friend told him he was willing to give him all the instruction he needed, but warned him that it might take longer than he anticipated. After 4 months the band teacher admitted that it was going to take longer than he thought.

I don’t think any instrument can be learned to a ‘professional level’ (whatever that might be deifined as) in 4 months, but bagpipes are a different beast entirely…and Uilleann Pipes take that an order of magnitude further yet. To be successful at this, be committed for the long haul.

31

Hi Wyatt,

Check your private messages.

32

The band teacher told him that he can learn to play any new instrument to professsional level in 4 months.

Good grief, that guy was deluded way before he ever took up pipes! In music-teacher-school I studied both violin and clarinet for two semesters (8 months) apiece, and barely learned enough of each to play at a 7th-grade level.

Which, in fact, was perfectly OK: the point of all those typically-4-month pedagogy courses is to give you just enough skill to be able, as a teacher, to get beginning students off to a good start; emphatically not to bring you up to “a professional level” of playing yourself.

Though, who knows what fools that guy has persuaded to pay him to play things he’s worked at for only a few months? All “professional” means is that you play for money, not that you play well. :wink:

33

:really:

Sorry, if im reading your context correctly here, then i consider your statement to be incorrect on numerous levels.
if , somehow, this comments meant to be ironic, or a joke on something…no, still dont get it.

I’m patently offended by the quoted text. :devil: :moreevil:

My apologies to the moderators. :frowning:

34

No apologies, it’s a valid discussion. We’re just sitting here in the balcony, eating our popcorn. :sunglasses:

35

I don’t see what’s offensive, because it’s true. It doesn’t preclude professionals from playing well (most do), but definitely it’s not the definition that professional = good, because there are loads of good musicians who are not professional, and loads of professional musicians who aren’t good*.

(*good is subjective, of course.)

36

Nothing concrete yet Mr Gumby but…

http://www.ayrshirebagpipes.co.uk/bagpipes-c-12.html

37

I’m patently offended by the quoted text.

Oh no, I meant absolutely no offense! It was a stupid thing to say. I was trying to make a joke at the expense of the aforementioned band director, who had abused the word “professional” with his crazy 4-month-mastery boast.

“Professional” is obviously supposed to mean lots more than just being paid: having passion for both the art and craft of music making, willingness to make sacrifices in order to put in the time necessary to truly master your instrument, etc., etc. For the record, all the people I’m personally acquainted with who make music for a living (many of whom are close, and obviously forgiving, friends), embodies the very highest standards of professionalism.

For what it’s worth, during the years in which I was paid to play horn in various regional orchestras, I had the humility to not call myself a professional – I was a “semi-professional.” (I played well and took it very seriously, but it was not my main focus in life, nor even close to being my primary source of income.)

I am, however, a professional (technical) writer, though I’m sure not living up to _those_standards this week. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sincerely and penitently yours,
Mick

38

gotcha Mick, no harm done buddy… :heart:
nor penitence needed :pint:
humor can be a minefield on internet forums ! :open_mouth:

39

Technically, a professional is a member of a regulated society / organization. For example, engineers, doctors, lawyers, all have to take tests, be part of a society, etc, to be “professional”. The rules / laws may be a little more lax in the US, but in Canada that’s how it is.

That said, using it more loosely, really the only thing that makes something someone does professional, rather than amateur, is getting paid.

40

And there are plenty of lame-a** professionals out there. I think I’ve hired half of them to work on my house, car, or be my dentist. :swear: