Tweaking a whistle with a dirty/harsh sound

Can I ask a question about the CCEF, please?

Is there a reason the strip of credit card has to be fitted underneath the existing ramp? If the new edge is going to split the air column at a higher point and further back inside the window, couldn’t it just go on top?

If you’ve done this sort of thing before it might be obvious why this is a stupid idea, but my only experience of tweaking a whistle is sticking lumps of Blu-Tack at strategic points on the tone body so my arthritic hands can keep hold of it.

But if it could go on top, it’d be a lot easier to do.

A major objective is reducing the amount of daylight between the floor of the windway and the bottom side of the blade. We either have to move the windway up (very difficult) or extend the blade down.

Putting the shim on the top side of the blade would serve to move the leading edge of the blade closer to the windway - the other major objective - but wouldn’t lower the bottom face. We could extend the shim below the existing underside of the blade; that would reduce the amount of daylight, but I think it would introduce unwanted turbulence behind the new leading edge. You could try it, I suppose.

Ah, I hadn’t fully appreciated that – thank you.

Well, it’s easily done and potentially reversible, I suppose, so I might try it with the one whistle I have that plays absurdly flat in the upper octave when the lower is in tune.

It’s an old Soodlums or Waltons that belonged to a chap my friend dated years ago. We found it when clearing her attic, and since the owner’s now deceased, she was going to bin it. The amount of wear around the holes attracted my attention – it looks like a well-loved and well-played old friend – so I hung onto it. The tone is clear and strong (the bore’s a good bit wider than my other high Ds), and it would sound great if it were feasible to blow the upper octave into tune without knocking lumps of plaster off the ceiling. It’s the ideal candidate for a bit of inexpert experimentation.

Now, is this your old Soodlums/Waltons that plays flat in the second octave?

(Ignore the two black buttons, I added them when I was getting a bit of hand trouble, which seems fortunately to have passed.)

If so, you might find this article interesting: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Tin-whistle-retuning.htm

Now, new experiment. I have here two fairly recent-looking and identical Waltons D whistles - the thin ones, not the Mellow D. Still in original packaging, picked up recently for $5 each in our local OpShop. Neither sounds well - both overly bright and dirty. Looking up at the sky shows a bold band of light in both. But probably not as bold as the Feadog I recently operated on. Gulp, would my credit card be too thick? Should I look for something else? Ah, at $5, who cares?

So, I picked one of them, and cut up the tiny piece of credit card I’d need to sit on the platform below the ramp. It was very tiny, even though I’d left around 2mm more in length to stick out into the window space. And I used the forceps, rubber band and poster putty approach I’d wondered about above for getting it into place. That worked really well, so worth a go if you plan to do any of this. Spot of superglue, pop it into place, clamp the forceps with the rubber band, and set aside half an hour to cure.

I should mention I’m using Tarzan’s Grip Shockproof Superglue. I’ve found it very good for lots of things. It doesn’t set instantly, which can be good or bad, depending on your application!

Half an hour later, plug the whistle tube back in and test. (Remember we have ~2mm of blunt card sticking out into the window!) In the record below, the number is how many mm back from the window exit the new edge is. Blunt means I cut it off vertically, Sharp means I’ve sharpened it to resemble the ramp. Undercut means I’m undercutting the front of the card, effectively raising the edge. I wondered if this might be a partial solution if the card sticks down too far. And along the way, we might find out what the downsides of a too low ramp floor might be.

4.35mm
Blunt - hardly speaks
Sharp - ditto

4.89mm
Blunt - playable, very quiet
Sharp - better but very quiet

5.22mm
Blunt - still rather quiet
Sharp - similar

5.39mm
Blunt - better, quiet, clean
Sharp - similar

5.51mm
Undercut - better

5.81mm
Blunt - card now invisible under ramp - better again

5.84mm
Undercut - better again, good enough!

Interesting now to compare the two whistles. The untreated one sounds really bad by comparison. A bit louder, but brash and dirty. The treated one sounds like a tin whistle.

And looking at the sky, still the bold band of light in the untreated one, and just the faintest awareness of light on the treated one. Not real light perhaps, but the promise of it!

I still wonder if I should have toughed it out, and kept sharpening from the top, rather than undercutting. It would have meant slicing away some of the old ramp. Hmmm, perhaps another day…

Pretty much!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/76bi250mo85dc4sn6hxwz/Waltons-1.jpg?rlkey=6apua8zqybfrubtyxsb4lrkp9&dl=0

The head on mine has the beginnings of a crack, so I taped it to make sure this wasn’t what was causing the very flat upper octave (it wasn’t).

But it plays more or less in tune if I do this:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/az3k1pw2ndvz8rz2y53hr/Waltons-2.jpg?rlkey=9dt27q3c80i027onaijh76n4i&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/be9fzbg23628zndm4cp98/Waltons-3.jpg?rlkey=f4s67sfgc20krj7icvfi9ai11&dl=0

…except the F#, which is around 20 cents flat with or without the modification. I only know because the tuner tells me, though, my pitch discrimination isn’t good enough to hear it myself without a reference tone.

The brass strip doesn’t work unless I put a spot of Blu-Tack under the bottom end to alter the angle of the ramp. It’s prone to moving when it gets damp, so at some point I’ll dig out some PVA medium and try and get the angle right before it hardens off.

If it’s a D whistle then having an F# around 20 cents flat will sound right to most musicians, trad and classical alike, because an F# that’s 14 cents flat is a perfect blend with D. It’s how accapela choirs and brass ensembles and string ensembles and bagpipers play their Major 3rds.

That’s interesting to know, thank you. It does sound fine to me, but as I have hearing loss and no musical training at all, I’d never be inclined to rely on my own judgement. Even the flattened upper octave sounded okay until I got to the A (which sounded to me as if I wasn’t blowing it right) and the B (definitely off, and what prompted me to find the tuner).

I think the tuning is about as far off on mine as it was on yours! But I quite like the back pressure on it, and as you say, it does have a nice strong tone.

Yes, I was attracted to its bold tone, but cheesed off by the flat upper-tube notes. Especially the 2nd octave B, which was 3/4 of the way down to Bb! Opening up all but one of the holes pretty much solved the tuning issue, but also changed the flavour of the instrument. Rather than a “Mellow D”, it was now a “Party Girl D”, as bright as Barbie, but tending a little shrill on the top notes!

We’ve identified a lot of issues with the old Generations and Clarkes, and the earlier Irish-brand whistles like Feadogs and Waltons. But we’ve also identified a number of pretty simple improvements that surely the companies should have come up with. Ideally before releasing the whistles in question. Mr Gumby has made the case for a bit of sympathy on the grounds of variability in mass-produced plastic castings. And some of the problems possibly relate to shrinkage later. But the tuning of the Mellow D relates to holes in brass. No excuses there!

So, have I harried this pair of op-shop Walton’s D whistles enough to offset the enormous capital investment of AUD $5.00 each? Nah! They are still “assisting authorities with their investigations…”

You’ll remember from our last exciting episode that neither played acceptably (dirty/harsh is a good description) as they came out of the box. I tweaked one with a chunk of credit card, but was a bit concerned (concerned might be too strong a word for $5.00!) that the card appeared a bit thicker than needed. Looking down the windway without the tube attached, even tilting the front up, I couldn’t really see a sliver of light under the ramp, just the faint promise of one. It would be interesting to try something a smidge thinner.

Then the notion occurred to me, surely we should be able to try before we buy? Can we come up with a temporary tweak, to allow us to test the notion before committing? Worried about committing $5.00? By now, you might realise you are in the company of a total tightwad!

So, casting around the dark recesses of the workshop (and there are many), I found some nice brass sheet, around 0.5mm thick (the credit card was about 0.75mm). So I cut up a piece to the dimensions needed, around 8mm wide x 5.5mm long, then stuck it to some double-sided tape. Now this isn’t the big bold double-sided tape used to hold down carpets, or hold up mirrors. This is really thin stuff from Sellotape, available in our local hardware outlet. Once the backing sheet is off, it’s hardly more than a smear on the surface to which it has been applied. But it’s good and sticky. I trimmed off the excess tape, removed its backing sheet, then offered the shim up the socket of the whistle, sticky side up. I balanced it on the open jaws of some tweezers, but you could use anything that would fit. Once the front of the shim was visible in the windway, I guided it into place and pressed upwards. It stuck out into the windway a smidge on one side, but I was able to edge it into better location, before again pressing it upwards from inside to help it stick.

I did feel that it wasn’t sitting entirely flat, possibly the width was a little too much for the little platform it had to adhere to. (This was a quick’n’dirty investigation!) I concentrated on making sure it was sticking well along the front edge, under the tip of the ramp, which seems to me to be more important than sticking well at the base of the socket.

And it didn’t bother me that I hadn’t “sharpened” the leading edge - that would be a job to do once the shim was firmly adhered into place with glue rather than with temporary tape.

Looking down the windway now, I could see the sliver of light I had been aiming for. And playing the whistle, it now sounded like a whistle, without all the harsh and dirty artifacts it had previously. It did sound a little quieter than its Credit Card Corrected sibling, but that’s OK too at this point. The real test would come if I glued it in permanently and cleaned up the ramp. The important thing to note is that it now plays well - it’s worth persevering with and we’re not going to make it worse.

I think though at this stage, all I had wanted to achieve has been achieved. Yes, it is possible to try out a temporary tweak to make sure you are heading in the right direction before committing! The whistle is probably of more use to me untweaked, as I can try out other experiments like this one.

So the mind now turns to what other useful shim material does one have lying around the house? For example, our local plastic milk bottles are a good source of 0.4mm shim, approximately half a credit card in thickness.

[Voice off, agitated] “Hey, why is this milk leaking?”

When it comes to material, these are quite good:

https://tinyurl.com/23eaendk

I found them spectacularly useless for much else, but if you want very thin, easily cut sheet brass with projections that are just the right width for the ramps of some high whistles, they’re perfect. I have a whole pile of them, bought from the sort of hardware store that will only sell you 50 of something even if you only need one.

I tried an offcut from one on the only whistle I have that doesn’t work. I bought it from a junk shop a couple of years ago, at the time when fishing something out of a cobwebby old cabinet and shoving it in your mouth suddenly looked risky for the first time ever. I paid my £1, took it home, steeped it in Milton fluid, and then discovered that all it produces are cracked notes. (I don’t know why, it looks fine.)

But I’ve now found that with a sliver of brass stuck to the outside of the ramp, it plays a mellow, in-tune Bb scale – except for the Bb, unfortunately, which is absent in the lower octave and dodgy in the upper. Clearly it needs further adjustment, but I had to go out at that point, and since then I haven’t been overcome by a desire to hear tunes mangled in the key of Bb instead of D. I’ll get round to it at some point.

Ah, thanks for revealing what that device in the windway in your image was made from, Moof. It looked familiar, but I couldn’t quite place it.

If you got adventurous, it would be interesting to try sticking an offcut or two under the ramp, as I’ve outlined above. I imagine that is pretty thin, so you’d probably need two or more, if it turns out that a bit “too much sky” is the issue on the whistle in question. But credit card if it’s “far too much sky”!

Hmmm, Ebay is now trying to lure me into buying “Picture frame Bendable mirror plate hanging hanger brass (206)”!

I found Blu-Tack unhelpful for this operation, so I’m waiting for the universe to reveal the location of a pack of Bostik glue dots, which I know I have.

Somewhere.

Yeah, I tried Blu-tack as well, with the same result. Best of luck finding the glue dots!

(Turns out later that, fresh from the shower, you inadvertently sat down on the glue dots, and they’ve been following you around ever since…)

:laughing: :laughing:

I also have a Generation Eb whistle that sounds very rough. I tried substituting different whistle heads. I know this isn’t a novel approach, but I came up with a really nice Eb whistle. I tried a whistle head from a Waltons Little Black whistle. Better, but still kind of rough. Next I tried a whistle head from a Feadog D (current model). Much better, but quite loud. Finally, I tried a whistle head from an Oak D whistle. This one was the best. Nice sound, light, nimble and flexible, just the way you expect Eb whistles to sound and play. So, for the cost of two inexpensive whistles, you get a very nice Eb! All the heads fit snugly on the Eb tube, except the Waltons which was a bit loose. But if you wanted to use that one, you could add some Teflon tape.

And what does the piece-of-the-sky test tell you about the different heads? How much light does the Oak head show between the floor of the windway and the underside of the blade? How does this compare to the other heads?

(For the record, I prefer to peer up the whistle from the bottom, pointing the blowing end to the light, rather than down the windway from the blowing end. You can’t skew the results as much by the angle you’re looking through the whistle, and you don’t need to remove the head. However, that may not tell you as much if there’s a bevel on the lower side of the blade.)

BTW, different head designs can affect the tuning, so they aren’t always universally interchangeable, even if the bore diameters match.

So, I did the suggested fix and glued a bit of credit card under the blade. Filed it to a bit of a slope, and for good measure filed it a little on the bottom to thin it a little (it was a thick card).

The result:

https://voca.ro/1cehhJxhnNhZ

For reference, the original is here (I tried replicating as best I could, same room, same device, same tune):

https://vocaroo.com/1lsbSuOkqw7t

To my ears the sound is softer, sweeter, and less “dirty” for lack of a better term. It’s not quite perfect, but I’m pretty happy with the fix. It’s now a whistle I would play around others, whereas for the past 9 years it’s sat more or less untouched.

Thanks for the advice, all!

In response to Turnborough’s question, the Oak had a relatively thin bit of daylight, followed by the Feadog and lastly the Waltons, which showed the most light.

Very good, thanks bigscotia, an impressive improvement. Any hints on how you went about it to encourage others to give it a shot? Let’s stamp out bad whistles wherever we can!

And thanks too, Flywhistler. Again poor old Mr Walton and Messrs Feadog are not coming out of this well, are they. Bit of an embarrassment that they are Irish companies making Irish whistles. C’mon lads, put a bit of effort into it…

Interestingly, I’ve heard of Oak whistles, but don’t think I’ve ever seen one. Maybe they don’t make it down this far? Maybe I should be having a word with our new US Ambassador to Australia, Caroline Kennedy about balance-of-trade issues?

“I’ve been sending lots of flutes over to America, Madam Ambassador. Surely you could shoot us back a bucket load of whistles every now and then?”