I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice regarding Cooktown ironwood as a material for flutes. I’m on Hammy’s list for a 6-key and I was thinking of having it done in cocus, which is now pretty expensive ($400 premium over blackwood). So, I’m wondering if ironwood might be a suitable and les expensive alternative. I’m wondering:
does ironwood have a bright sound like cocus?
how durable/long-lived is it likely to be?
is it possible/likely I’ll have an allergic reaction to it, as some people do with cocus?
(1) I don’t think cocus has a bright sound. I think delrin does. Cocus sounds like complex blackwood, and box is mellow. Ironwood is . . . hmm. Maybe on the blackwood side. Different. A little mellower.
(2) I think it’s durable. I have one instrument in ironwood, a Mark Hoza quena. Seems like iron. Strong like bull.
(3) Of course that’s possible, though I think MUCH less likely than with cocus. Cocus is notorious for allergy, whereas I don’t know that I personally have heard of ironwood allergy. Some people are allergic to blackwood, too; don’t forget that. I think the only hypoallergenic timber is boxwood.
(4) It finishes nicely but the grain and overall texture is much more prominent with ironwood than with cocus, box, or blackwood. So it’ll definitely have a little bit of texture to it, whereas cocus/box/blackwood might be closer to “perfectly smooth.”
Skip Healy uses it, as does Mark Hoza; probably some other folks as well. In my own opinion, differences between timbers are subtle at best; it’s not like anything is going to jump out as COMPLETELY DIFFERENT or anything. Cooktown ironwood is nice, and it’s a nice alternative to cocus.
Though I think it’s interesting we’re now talking about alternatives to cocus as though it were the end-all-be-all, which I don’t think it is. It’s great timber, but timber doth not the flute make.
I have an ironwood headjoint by Mark Hoza, as well as an ironwood quena. The headjoint, in particular, is the most beautiful piece of flute i’ve ever seen. The wood is absolutely beautiful. It’s very heavy and dense too. The sound of my headjoint is dark and complex, not mellow, loud (but as i said in another thread, i may be in the minority here, but i think the material contributes little to a flute’s sound).
On the minus side, though it’s pretty durable, it’s not as durable as blackwood, nor as tollerant of abuse. I cracked my Hoza 'joint by leaving it unplayed for a week in the dry season, and then doing a 2-hour practice session on it. The RH in the home at the time was around 33%. Now i keep it in a 70% RH humidor when i’m not playing, just in case.
Funny you should mention this as I was in your very same situation a little while back…
I placed an order with Hammy a bit over a year ago now for, you guessed it, a flute in cocus. I’m hoping that it will be ready any day now (he originally said about 6 months wait) but, well, I’m still waiting. You can’t rush a master at his art though right! Anyway, my choice of getting an instrument made from cocus instead of some other type of wood had very little to do with which timbre would “sound” better, which looked better, or which was more durable. Most of those things are dependent upon the maker, the instrument, and instrument care. Instead, it had more to do with a sense of nostalgia I associate with cocus flutes. It’s kind of like feeling closer to the concert flutes of 150 years ago, and getting in touch with the roots of the tradition. Anyway, that’s my reasoning even if it isn’t logical and more than a bit cheezy.
I’m positive that a cooktown ironwood flute will sound just as nice for significantly less cost and will probably look more attractive with the beautiful golden grain that it has. For me though, the nostalgia part played a big role and if I’d made the choice of some other timber I would have always had that little voice in the back of my head saying “It’s a nice flute, but it’s not really what you wanted”.
Besides, musicians are well known for spending more on instruments than they can afford!
My buddy has a cooktown ironwood Healy flute, it’s sturdy & speaks great. Generally good stuff, nice looking too. I’ve heard people say it’s a hair brighter than blackwood, but I honestly can’t hear the difference. His is highly polished by some kind of voodoo put on it at Von Huene’s shop, looks really sharp & eliminates the need for oiling (or so the story goes). Hope this is helpful
Having owned both Cocus and Ironwood flutes, I’d say the following:
I don’t think the sound of Cooktown Ironwood is as bright as Cocus, but to be fair, I had to compare and unlined Healy with a lined Olwell Cocus…hardly apples to apples, so not entirely reliable to be sure.
It seems quite durable, at least as durable as the (fairly unseasoned) new Cocus you’re likely to run into these days.
Ironwood allergies are less common than Cocus allergies, but they do happen: Back when I had an Ironwood Healy, a year or two ago, I sent it off to Andra Bohnet (woodenflute list regular) for a demo. She had a fairly severe reaction to the flute, so I know some people do react. You can be allergic to one of these woods, and not another: I’m allergic to Cocus, but not Cooktown Ironwood.
Cooktown Iron wood is visually stunning, however it doesn’t naturally finish anywhere nearly as smoothly as Blackwood or Cocus, but the “rougher” texture has a nice character all of it’s own, and it’s easier to hold on to with sweaty hands than a Glassy finished Cocus beastie!
Why not ask Hammy?
Personally, I usually take the maker’s opinion over anybody else’s. They know their work, the wood they turn, and what they have in stock etc.
I imagine that even blackwood, rosewood and cocus can vary piece by piece, batch by batch.
I remember talking to Murray a few years ago and he voluntarily gave me the exact density of some of the wood he had in stock.
Thank you all for your advice! I’m still not sure whether or not I’ll go for ironwood, but I agree that I should probably have this same conversation with Hammy himself. He made me a killer blackwood keyless flute about six months ago, by the way. So, I can assure everyone out there that his work is well worth the wait. Mine took about three or four months more than he originally estimated, which speaks to his growing list. The list is growing for a very good reason! These are top-tier flutes at an unbelievable price. Can’t wait for my 6-key, due around November 2004!
I don’t know a lot about how he does it, it’s one of his “secrets”. It basically involves dipping the flute in some kind of wax or oil(not sure about this) but I do know that he buffs the bore to a mirror shine & the outside too. It reduces the drag of the bore & makes for a better tone. I’m not sure if it seals the wood or not but I don’t think it does. It might help out people in low or erratic humidy areas from getting cracks. Then again this is just a guess. I think the best place to go for the answers is to Von Huene himself - he’s pretty reasonable & a nice guy too.
Having the piss out of someone is the same as poking fun at them. No offense taken, I’m a little bit tougher than that. (I think)
I don’t know a lot about how he does it, it’s one of his “secrets”. It basically involves dipping the flute in some kind of wax or oil(not sure about this) but I do know that he buffs the bore to a mirror shine & the outside too. It reduces the drag of the bore & makes for a better tone. I’m not sure if it seals the wood or not but I don’t think it does. It might help out people in low or erratic humidy areas from getting cracks. Then again this is just a guess. I think the best place to go for the answers is to Von Huene himself - he’s pretty reasonable & a nice guy too.
Having the piss out of someone is the same as poking fun at them. No offense taken, I’m a little bit tougher than that. (I think)
I’m the buddy with the Cooktown ironwood Healy flute with the von Huene voodoo treatment. You can see the flute here: http://www.johndharvey.com/flute/
I’ll work through the original post’s questions and get into everything that popped up afterwards.
Cooktown ironwood is a bit brighter overall compared to blackwood or cocus. I have flutes in both wood types and while the difference isn’t massive, it is noticeable if you play the instruments one after another. In terms of volume, I feel that it’s on par with blackwood (but this has a lot to do with the player as well).
It’s an extremely durable wood. I’ve had my flute for several years now in New England’s wildly varying climate and haven’t had any issues with cracking.
I suppose it’s possible, but I haven’t heard of any such thing yet.
Ironwood finishes very nicely and smoothly with the right equipment and a patient hand. It does not have the same smooth-as-glass interior bore as blackwood but that difference appears to be more noticeable to the human eye rather than the ear. The brightness in tone appears to be the only audible difference between blackwood and ironwood.
von Huene’s process for oiling and polishing a flute is something he’s worked up after decades of making instruments. Dave Skillen (who does keywork at both von Huene’s and Skip Healy’s shops) explained some of it to me at one time, and it’s pretty involved.
The Reader’s Digest version is that the finished flute (sans keys) is dipped in a combination of different oils and sealers over the course of days. Once the flute is removed from the bath, the interior bore is carefully polished on a lathe using attachments designed specifically by von Huene.
What they look like and how they work…I dunno.
What’s in those different baths…I dunno.
von Huene does play his cards close to his vest when it comes to that stuff and I can’t say I blame him. The treatment makes a noticeable difference in the purity of tone. von Huene’s flutes very rarely develop cracks, so it also appears to help in that area as well.
The last I heard, you can’t send flutes to von Huene and ask for the treatment. He does it for his own flutes and Skip’s.
