Hi, Has anybody tried to attempt the Seamus Ennis version of The Fox Chase, printed in the lates version of An Piobaire? If you thought the time signature changes in Bernsteins “West Side Story” were challenging, have look at this version of The Fox Chase. Orriginally when I looked at the time changes I thought, oh goodness. Between bars 99-105 it goes from 6/4, 5/4, 4/4, 5/4, 4/4/, 6/8 . I’ve fond that little part challenging to play, especially when beating out the rhythm. In the end I gave up and used a metranome and got there eventually in the end.
So how many of you have actually tried attempting this version or any other versions of the Fox Chase and what are your thoughts on this piec. Is it just me or are there many different versions of the one piece. David Power, Mikie Smyth, Leo Rowsome and Liam O’Flynn all play different versions. Any reason for this? I recall that there is also an orchestrated version that Leo Rowsome and the New York Phylamonic performed in the mid-1970.
It’s one of those pieces that has been handed down and has changed slightly from person to person.
It was supposedly ‘composed’ in 1799, by Hyland who was 19 at the time. I wouldn’t be suprised that Mr. O’Farrel took some libertys in structuring the piece so it could fit into a 4/4, 6/8, 3/2 or any even-time realm when he printed it first in his book of 1807/8/9 or so.
Also, all the printed versions never mention or even hinted at the “squeally bits” that Leo Rowsome did first and did so well.
Were those squeally bits part of the original piece??? Some transcriptions refer to the "fox dying’ but there is no notation to reflect this.
Squeally bits aside..
Leo Rowsome’s version is probably the closest to the printed version in the O’Farrell book.
God knows where Mr. Ennis got his version from. Its structure resembles nothing that you’ll find in Francis O’Neill’s compedium of his friends in pages 128 to 130.
I think Mr. Ennis made it up. And, fair fuggin play to him for that!!
It’s a master piece!!!
By the way, don’t count (numerically) those time signatures, just listen. Go with the tune.
In the final paragraph on page 22 it does say quite clearly**..“Finally,don’t be put off by the varying time signatures.Most of the body of the transcription is in 4/4.Bars marked 3/4,5/4 etc.simply contain less or more crotchets of the same duration as the preceding bars…”**
So if ye had read that bit as well as the music ye would have been ok.
As for different versions..the whole point of Irish Music is to put your own stamp on it ,a little variation here or there is what it is all about..so there will be naturally different versions of tunes and the music is richer for it.
As Peter succinctly says ye should be able to say “its my own job” and not be a total slave to the dots .
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam
See also An Piobaire vol 1 no 30 for the original publishing of this version - minus the regulator work - and some more comments from Pat Mitchell on the proliferation of different versions.
Felix Doran’s version had the ultimate sound effects, dogs, hens, a gander, as well as the fox and horses.
Hi Peter would it at all be possible for you to send me an .mp3 version of the tune? At present my version seems to be a whiled combination between Mikie Smyth, Patsy Touhey (as printed in O’Neils) and the Ennis version printed in An Piobaire. It’d be interesting to compare your own versions with others in the Piping community. Maybe it’d be fun to post your own version on Clips and Snips.
I didn’t get my Piobaire, they probably assumed I got it at Willie Pat Mitchell sent me the recording he used for the Ennis book some years ago, superb stuff. Anyway, it’s a long piece and would be a bit of an effort to pump down the West Clare telephone lines.
I taught the Foxchase to a few of the pupils six months ago, used the introduction Liam Flynn used and most of the Ennis version after for them. With optional barking but they didn’t go for that. Don’t let the time signatures put you off, it’s not that complicated when you hear it.
Was looking through the Northern Fiddler last night and for no reason had a look at Johnny Doherty’s ‘Horse and Hounds’ so there’s coincidence for you.
I agree with kenr that Felix Doran’s animal noises (plus a few others ) are the best. There is an additional version of the Fox Chase, quite different again, that Mhícheál Ó Riabhaigh had, and is reproduced on Eoin Ó Riabhaigh’s CD, Tiomnacht/Handed On.
Eoin Ó Riabhaigh’s version is a little different again and I think it follows the Touhey version in O’Neills very closely. Touhey’s version came from for lads in the cork pipers club so there could be some connection there…
Rowsome seems to closely follow the version in O’Neill’s music of Ireland which takes Touhey as it’s source, including the squealy bits.
I still think Rowsomes version is closest to that in O’Farrells. I have to listen to it again. Mind you O"Neills and O’Farrells are identical until half way through the lament O’Neills/Touheys varies a little and there’s the first part of the madradhin rua again. But just after that theres a bit that I never heard anyone do.
DEF DEF DEF DEF DEF DEf etc and then DEFE DEFE DEF ad. inf. and then the jig and we’re all happy.
But Peter you are correct about both O’Neill and O’Farrell giving instructions to squeal. Both have “cry of the hounds”
I’m sure it would take huge effort of work to transpose the squeally buts exactly as Rowsome played it. Or anyone else for that matter.
Time signatures would be all over the place 11 1/2 16 and on and on.
Any way don’t let the time signatures put you off. Get a recording of it and go from there.
I only caught that bit of your post after I made mine, I only made that comment from memory although I looked at O’Neill’s while writing, didn’t check O’Farrell yet, you’re probably right on that.
Hrmm, lost the copy of the NF I tried to steal years ago…
The owner mostly got it out to heap contempt on it anyway. ANyhoo is the Horse and Hounds the same tune as the jig the Hare in the Corn they play in Donegal? Which is what Ennis kicked things off with, also as in Roche’s book.
Ennis’s version is largely the one in Roche - it’s in the Marches - but in G 'stead of D. Roche goes to G at the end though, for the jig anyway - which is possibly unique to him? His lament(s) are in D mixolydian, however. I think they’re roughly the same as Ennis too. Ennis’s lament is basically the same as Rowsome but in C natural - it comes out like it’s in G though, like Casadh an tSugain for instance. To my ear. I’ve also heard Casadh sung by Ennis sounding like it belonged in G so it’s how you go about it I’d guess. Roche also has a three bar finale in 6/8, after the 9/8 jig, maybe also how Ennis had it.
O’Flynn performed The Fox Chase on one of Glackin’s RTE programs - first time ever.
All of this discussion shows the difficulties of musical transcriptions and transmission. I would hate to see the tradition locked into a written version when this piece is obviously a rich area for interpretation and performance. Really, just like getting to the essence of an air through a sean nos rendition, one needs to get out there on the fox hunt to pick up the textures - tally ho!
There’s a reel setting of The Hare in the Corn from John Doherty in TNF. I assume that’s a Donegal version But not a jig…
Doherty’s “The Hunt of the Hound and the Hare” is mostly notated in 6/8, with some staves that have no barlines at all. Maurice Bradley gave me a tape of this, and it’s brilliant (and impossible to transcribe properly).
Sometimes, transcriptions are an animal that simply cannot exist. Bless the powers that be there are recordings, and a handful of folk still playing these untranscribable tunes.
Sometimes, transcriptions are an animal that simply cannot exist.
Exactly Joseph, but for a piper like me without access to a tutor the manuscript is the only option. However If I have a recording of the tune I like to have the manuscript as a guide but try not to deviate to fare from the recording.
If you can read and write standard notation, then play your favorite version of something (yeah, you’ll have to stop and rewind one hell of a lot) and transcribe it. I have done this. Paddy O’Brien used to play tunes on his accordion for me to transcribe while we were killing time in motel rooms. I got more than a few nice versions of his vast cerebral library of music.
I feel that with these descriptive pieces structurally consist of various melodies and linking motifs, the melodies providing the framework upon which the more improvisatory motifs ( in this case emulations of hunting noises) are hung. One could imagine that players would develop their own motifs from hearing other players, and also when performing as emotion and context indicated; thus creating an organic vehicle for expression that defies notation.
Indeed! just try transcribing Finbar Furey’s version on Nonesuch:
my personal fave; I never could get past this one: for better or for worse: it’s the 1st UP recording I really sunk my teeth into.
. I’ve fond that little part challenging to play, especially when beating out the rhythm. In the end I gave up and used a metranome and got there eventually in the end.
Pat Mitchell sent me the recording he used for the Ennis book some years ago, superb stuff. Anyway, it’s a long piece and would be a bit of an effort to pump down the West Clare telephone lines.
) are the best. There is an additional version of the Fox Chase, quite different again, that Mhícheál Ó Riabhaigh had, and is reproduced on Eoin Ó Riabhaigh’s CD, Tiomnacht/Handed On.
But not a jig…