I have a copy of Emily Post’s Book on etiquette and found it to be nice reading. I am appalled at how many people do not have a hook in the bathroom to hang my strop on (as any good host would have). I do find that having the knife in the right hand is useful for defense and would not change that part of eating.
If I were dining with the Queen then I’d want a great deal of instruction in Royal table etiquette. I don’t consider a college chow hall to be on the same level. Common politeness as Wanderer mentioned will suffice. If I’m eating at someones house then I’ll follow the rules they define. I don’t think it’s useless to be aware of different table manners but they can safely be applied according to context.
The point is, Cranberry has no idea, and has already been socially embarrassed amongst his peers as a result of his ignorance. Wisely, he has asked questions, and one presumes has done so to prevent any further embarrassment.
The folks here giving advice that says “tell 'em to go to hell” and “It’s their problem” will of course do nothing to alleviate Cran’s ignorance, and continued embarrassment. Which will be made considerably worse through more formal situations he’s likely to encounter in later life.
“All that other crap is frippery” is a comment I perceive to be entirely based upon the class distinction that exists between your slot in the social pecking order, and the slot where “all that frippery” is practiced on a daily basis by ‘the upper classes’ for whom it is de rigeur and ritual. It defines them, in many ways.
“The essence of table manners is to get the food from your plate to your mouth in an inoffenive manner” is on reflection, probably quite true. But the level of offensiveness depends on the company in which you’re dining.
For example, I’d take no offense to someone at my table making a chip butty and smothering it with tomato sauce or Daddies. But if you were dining with Aunty Agnes and the Queen and did so, poor Aunty Agnes would likely faint dead away.
Another example: If you find yourself in the Middle East, and are invited by the locals to what we expats affectionately referred to as a “goat-grab”, don’t be surprised by the complete absence of cutlery. Food is eaten with the right hand. And if you ever, ever touch any of it with your left hand, be prepared for a world of embarrassment (if not hurt). There were, of course, idiots who accepted such invitations without taking the time and trouble to learn a little about local customs and ‘table manners’. They didn’t last long.
It’s a matter of ‘when in Rome,’ I think.
Some aspects of table manners are a matter of courtesy; some are more or less completely arbitrary. If you ever eat a formal dinner with upper middle class English folk you’ll find their code extremely complex. The table is laid just so with each implement in exactly the right position. There is one knife and fork for this dish, another pair for that. After dinner the port goes around in one direction and the cigars in the other.
Meet the same people for an informal meal in their home and most of the formalities are dispensed with.
My view of these matters is, I take it, pretty much the standard view. The overlay of arbitarary conventions is designed to help people assess the social class of someone at a glance. To be effective it has to be arbitrary. If it were logical it would be easy for interlopers to guess what was right and pass themselves off as insiders.
Gary - I understand what you are saying, but Cran was eating at a college hall, not at a 5 star restaurant.
I’ve never eaten at a 5 star restaurant (and since the one we had here recently closed, it’s highly likely I never will). If I were to do so, of course, I would want to do so in a proper way.
But at a college hall? Common - people should be glad no one was doing something aka Belushi’s character in “Animal House”!
True. But Cran wasn’t able to do that without being the subject of at least one person’s attention for lack of ‘table manners’. Which is why Cran posted, no?
Now extrapolate… suppose Cran applies himself mightily, and finds himself valedictorian. Suppose he’s invited to dine with the Dean and faculty at a formal dinner. And all he’s learned about basic table etiquette from this forum is shovel his face and tell his hosts to stoat off when they start politely coughing and blushing furiously.
aight, then, mayhaps I was wrong with the “it’s their problem” comment…
It looks like this is going to turn into a big argument so I’m stayin’ out.
for the record…I eat Continental style.
I’m a slob, waddoo I know?
I thought Cran posted because he wanted to know if it was a faux pas to cut food with a fork, not becaue he wanted to learn how to dine with the Queen and use a dessert spoon. Let me quote the direct question:
So now I’m asking C&Fers. Why is it not polite to cut your food with only a fork? And why does it matter which hand the fork is in?
And the answer “it doesn’t really matter, and that guy is just being anal” is a perfectly acceptable answer.
Now, if Cran had said “I’m eating with the Queen tomorrow” the answers should and would be quite different. You’re making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. Just like that guy who thought Cran shouldn’t cut food with a fork. You correctly make the distinction that manners are situational. What’s acceptable in the mid-east may not be acceptable to british royalty. And Cran’s situation is “In a college dining hall” where eating with your hands is likely a common occurance.
My grandmother absolutely forbade us to eat pizza or fried chicken with our hands. We used a fork and a knife. But I submit that too much table formality can be just as situationally inappropriate as drinking from your finger bowl.
There’s the point Cran. It doesn’t matter if their version of table manners is absolutely correct or not. They cared enough that they didn’t want you to embarrass yourself and they cared enough to do it privately. Let’s face it, a lot of folks would have taken great delight in loudly ridiculing you. Sounds like someone with your best interests at heart.
One more thing. It’s a large refectory by the sound of it, look around you and watch what other people are doing.
Exactly.
I draw the line at blowing bubbles in my milk through a straw.
It is not only proper but always a hoot at formal dining engagements.
I must apologize for referring to Cranberry’s refectory as a “chow-hall”. I will use the term “slop-chute” in the future.
Woah, there are three pages already? Haha.
I tend to take Olive’s attitude toward the whole thing.
I would never eat at a “formal” restaurant (I don’t eat out, period) or have dinner with kings and royalty (that seems a very unQuakerly thing to do), so I don’t think I will have to learn which way the fork shall point to signal that I am finished eating, thankfully.
I just wanted to know the “why” of these silly rules, and I’ve gotten some sort of an answer. Thanks all!
I think you’re reading too much into this. Cran was corrected by a
peer, and not in earshot of others, if his original post tells correctly.
I would like to know what would have happened if Cran had passed
along the peer’s remarks to any others at the table (which would, of
course have been rude). If this person had said this in the North
Carolina State University Veterinary School’s dining hall, he/she would
have been told very loudly to mind their own damn business, and would
henceforth have been concidered a prudish pariah. Perhaps if Cran told
this friend they were being anal, he would be saving them from fuuture
social outcastery.
That being said, I agree with Gary that this should be a learning experience,
and that’s why Cran first posted, I believe. Unfortunately, you’re probably
going to have to read a Miss Manners book to find out, it seems.
Agreed.
Oh, I didn’t feel “socially embarrased.” I more felt sorry for people who hold to such ornate food rituals more than I felt socially embarrased for myself. shrug
You feel sorry for them? You think they are unhappy or something?
They know exactly what they are doing.
I’m sorry for them because they’re caught up in that kind of thing and don’t even realise how petty it is (not that I’m not also caught up in a lot of petty stuff, too, though 
).
A high proportion of all the rule governed things we do are arbitrary. You can only avoid it by avoiding human contact altogether.
For some people, maintaining class distinctions is as important a task as they will ever do. Of course it can be ridiculous—think of Hyacinthe Bucket—but remember that she is only pretending to be genteel. It can be screamingly funny; check out a Noel Coward ‘best of’ album some time. But arbitrary aspects of manners don’t only define class. They define what groups you belong to, your group identity. Groups of friends develop arbitrary codes that tell them who is in and who isn’t—patterns of speech, dress, greetings and so forth.
It’s a mistake to think that people caught up in this stuff don’t know they are. Everybody (even a hermit) is caught up in group identification. It’s probably better to be aware of this stuff than simply driven by it, if only because it gives you the power to choose which groups you belong to. But it doesn’t give you the power to bypass game playing; nothing can give you that power.
Actually, GaryKelly said this, but I do whole-heartedly agree. 
I must say your first post made it sound as though you came from a somewhat disadvantaged background—“I come from a culture where table manners are non-existant because growing up we didn’t have a kitchen table.”
It is true that you simply asked “why” about the fork thing and not about manners in general. Unfortunately, many people, taking rather seriously the statement that “table manners are non-existant [sic]” in your background, spent a fair amount of time thinking about this situation and endeavored to offer general advice to you.
All I can say, and I’m sure this won’t disturb you, is that I shan’t be wasting my time this way again.
Man: “Where’s me fork and knife?”
Waiter: “Under yer fork ‘n’ nose!”
Steve