After a recent conversation in a session with a number of whistle players we came to the conclusion that none of us like Susatos. However we have all played one and many of us owned them.
I was once told that they were very good, when actually they are not. They are too loud, the c is out of tune, the sound like a bad recorder and that little thumb nubbin is generally very irritating.
Can anybody please explain where the myth that they were the whistle of choice began and why. Any views welcome.
OK, I’ll bite. I can’t recall which bands use them, but they are, or once were, played by several well known bands (doesn’t Kevin Crawford play them?).
I’ve found them to be some of the most in tune whistles I’ve ever played. The Cnat in not out of tune on the few I’ve played and it’s much more in tune than on the vast, vast majority of cylindrical whistles I’ve played (susatos are slighly conical bored).
Yes they are loud, but this is OK in certain situations, and the VSB susato isn’t much louder than a generation.
Finally, they are very consistent and the price is good for an in tune and consistent whistle.
I really like my VSB in D. Doesn’t sound any more recorder like than any high end whistle with a pure low chiff sound…and it’s so easy to remove that stupid thumb rest thing (I assume you thought of that on your own, though).
I sold mine last week to do some fundraising for my new Silkstone Alloy.
I didn’t like the Susato set I had ( D, C, Eb ), neither did my dogs. Although they always want to be with me whenever I start whistling, they wanted to get out of the room as soon as possible the moment I touched a Susato.
My jaws were always beginning to hurt after a while and no, I didn’t chew on it
I don’t think Susatos are necessarily a “whistle of choice” for beginners because they take a bit more breath control to keep them from shrieking like banshees. When I first got one, I thought that it was too loud, and that the C was off and that it didn’t even sound as good as a cheap recorder. Three years later, it’s amazing how much that whistle has improved.
As for the thumb nubbin, if you haven’t figured out how to get it off yet, it’s too complex for you, and you should maybe get a bodhran instead.
My susato is not great on the second octave but it’s got large bores. I got it recently. It’s great on the first octave. It’s loud as well, not great for practising at home, it’s only for the odd tune in sessions.
I played someone’s else with small bores and it was a lot better on the second octave and not so audible in the first octave. It depends what you 're looking for, doesn’t it?
I suppose it’s a matter of personal opinion here. There is no fact.
I don’t think Susatos are bad whistles just because I happen to hate them.
I don’t like the sound, it’s as simple as that. Others might like the sound.
You may like them better after you’ve been playing a bit longer.
Or perhaps not; not everyone likes their sound, and they do require quite a bit of control to play well.
True story: I play session with another C&F’er, Jen, who is a very talented whistler, and usually plays either her Oak or her Burke in session.
One session I had brought my Susato (the SB, not the newer VSB model). She asked to try it, and played it through a tune. She then looked at me, with a mildly surprised look on her face, and said, “But that sounds nice…”
That was her first time to try a Susato–until then all she knew of them I would suppose came from reading about them on these boards.
The only situation where I can imagine myself playing a susato is in a session with 12 musicians or more. Since I usually don’t sit in a session with more than 6-7 musicians anymore, much quieter whistles are far than enough, and as a matter of taste I don’t think the whistle is meant to outbalance or even balance other instruments. In my opinion, a whistle can be very shrill and has to be handled with care, due to the fact that it’s second octave always outbalance it’s first in term of volume.
In some of the best sessions I listened to, Mary Bergin was playing a very quiet Sindt whistle and you could hear her perfectly even though she was playing beside some pipes, flute, fiddle and keyboard.
A few years ago, my wife Alice and I went to Ireland. We had the good fortune to go to Sean Ryan’s house and hear him play. He plays Susatos. That particular day he played an E Flat Susato. Beautiful! Guess it comes down to who’s hands the instrument is in.
When I read a post like this I come to either one of these conclusions.
Quistle either has a hidden agenda or he & the players in that
particular session don’t have a clue. Would not know a good whistle
if it bit them on the ass. Apologies for the strong language but
stuff like this gets my blood boiling. I don’t bother posting or
responding to most of the susato negatives here but this goes
a little too far.
Thanks to all here who defend our fine products and to all the professionals who play and record with our fine whistles the world over. A long, long, list of top players whose feedback we appreciate a
lot more than some clown named Quistle.
Peace,
Kelhorn Mike
PS Dale, please consider this my commercial post of the month
and do not sensor this as I seldom post at all anymore!
For those how don’t know, Mike Kellhorn is in charge of the whistles at Susato.
FWIW, the reason I don’t play Susatos much is that I prefer the sound and timbre of other whistles (subjective that), that they are too loud for my purposes and not balanced enough between the octaves. That applies to a lot of other whistle that are much more expensive than Susatos (like the Greenwood/Davey Boisvert whistle I recently tried, O’Riordans, Sweetheart Pros, etc.).
As for Mike’s claim that many people record with Susatos, I think that true, and of course in the recording setting neither volume nor balance are issues. If I were to record I wouldn’t hesitate to use Susatos (esp. the C or Bb), and hard to beat at the price. Of course I won’t record anytime soon, but there you have it.
On another note: there have been so many new whistlemakers in the past few years, but I think there are actually only a few who really know what they’re doing in terms of instrument design and accoustics and what have you. The Kellhorns are among them, imho. (But I still won’t play a Susato in session. )
There’s this guy named Tony Hinnigan. If he keeps practicing I’m certain someday he’ll be a famous whistle and flute player. I noticed he’s playing a Susato on movie number 2 on this site:
I also remember seeing a movie at Phil Hardy’s website of the fellow from Lunasa playing a Susato. I’m certain he was just playing this as a joke–you know to sound bad.
Joanie Madden, in her interview with Dale Wisely, said she owns a couple of Susatos. I’ve also heard she’s not a bad whistle player, but what a scandal that she’d have Susatos.
Clearly some don’t like Susatos. Fine. It also seems that some who appear to have at least average talent take a fancy to them.
A friend recently asked which of my whistles was my favorite. I paused for a moment then said Susato. I have a dozen whistles including: Burke, Chieftain, Clarke, Elfsong, Hoover, Sweetheart.
I recently played at a memorial service, and I picked the Susato. Perhaps it is a comfort level that I have built up with the tune I had in mind. A funeral is an emotional setting. I am not a professional, so being able to depend on the whistle first go is imperative. I have a black Susato D so it matches funeral attire and fits in a suit pocket. I would be reluctant to carry a bright colored whistle or an obtrusive case into that setting.
Why do I like the Susato? It is nearly indestructible. It is in tune. It has volume for unamplified situations. It does well in the wind for outdoors. Susatos have inched up in price, but are still a good buy compared to what else is out there.
What don’t I like is the shrillness above High F. It tends to clog in conditions where condensation might occur.
Well, it’s just my humble opinon and Quistle and his friends are
entitled to theirs. But it is my opinion that they have no taste and
therefore just maybe they don’t have a clue or it could be a
hidden agenda. It’s pure BS to say there is a “myth” when none
exists. I could care less about people saying they prefer one
whistle over the other but as far as I and many, many others
(most probably thousands of players) the concept of the
Susato being a very good musical instrument is no “myth”.Though
I felt very insulted by Quistle’s comments I do acknowledge his
right to make them but I also have the right call him on his
BS. Of course, that’s just MHO! Thanks again all Susato Fans
and please be advised we’ll be making whistles for hopefully
many, many years.
For feck’s sake grow up Mike. Why are you taking this stuff personally?
If you had any sense you would take note of the following obvious facts:
Lots of players like Susatos.
Lots of players dislike Susatos.
Both categories include some very good and some less good players. Those in category 2 have perfectly good reasons for disliking them. You could do one of two things instead of bellyaching and getting petulant on here:
Stick to your tried and true design, realizing that it won’t satisfy everyone.
Think of ways of making a whistle that you could sell to those that don’t like the tried and true design.
Everything I’ve ever seen written by you would suggest there’s not much chance of that. This includes your reply to a very polite email I sent you, years ago, long before I heard of this forum. I pointed out my reactions to two of your whistles - a C that I really liked, and and D I bought on the strength of the C, which I was very disappointed by. You brushed off my feedback with barely disguised contempt.
This led me to conclude that you’re not a very good businessman, at least as far as customer relations are concerned, and just about everything you have ever contributed here bears this out.
I don’t have your extensive experience in Ireland (only got to listen in to two pub sessions while there last month - the downside of a bus tour), but the best whistler I saw (don’t have his name - he was playing in a small session in Killarney) spent the night alternating between a Susato and (I think) a Feadog. Of the two, the Susato got by far the most play.
When I visited the local music stores, it seemed that the whistles on display fell into these categories:
Generation/Clarke/Feadog/Walton’s cheapies
Susato
Chieftains (various keys)
Overtons (various keys)
Howard low D
I seem to recall seeing an aluminum-body Dixon in a shop in Dublin, but didn’t get close enough to make a positive identification.
Once you got past the cheapies, the Susatos seemed to be the most common.
I actually like my only Susato (a VS D) fairly well. As long as I play it outdoors. NOT a good whistle for solo playing indoors, especially since our house has a lot of hard surfaces that bounce the sound right back. But it’s not a BAD whistle at all - in tune, fairly easy to play once you get a bit of breath control, rugged, inexpensive. At the same price point I’d prefer Serpent, Syn, or Dixon over Susato, at least indoors, but that’s just my personal taste.
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