StevieJ, I couldn’t agree more. Forums like these are not the place to bash someone’s products, and neither is it the place to attack someone for giving their opinion. It can all be done with restraint and good judgement. Unfortunately, sometimes that’s in shorter supply than needed.
Bashing sometimes is done for fun, but sometimes it’s just accidentally done when thoughts aren’t expressed well. But, it is bad for business to abrubtly and rudely dismiss someone if you don’t really know where that person is coming from, certainly not one post. And you are right, we’ve seen Mike jump on someone before like this, and that’s not good if that’s all that is posted by this person.
I was going to say, I had a Low D Susato non-tunable that I thought was a great whistle, intune, and one of the easiest playing whistles I’ve owned. I only sold it because I found others with a tone I preferred.
I also listened to Mick Woodruff play a Susato C on clips and snips that nocked my socks off! It was all I could do to not go out and buy one right away, because I wanted one! I just don’t play many high whistles, so I didn’t buy it. Maybe someday.
I think your two suggestions to Mike about what he could do about it are right on, too. Just keep making them just the way they are, or try to get a larger share of the market by also introducing new whistles that might please more people.
And customer relations are very important in business. I didn’t get a good impression from Mike’s post either. And for what it’s worth, Mike, I didn’t like how Quistle expressed his thoughts either.
I imagine there is a lot of difference from session to session. The acoustics of the room, the mix of instruments, the number of players, the experience of the musicians, how much background noise there is to overcome, all would factor in, as well as the dynamics of the instruments.
For whatever reason Susatos seem to attract more negative energy on Chiff than most other brands. This thread has been relatively civil. However elsewhere on this board I have read any number of jokes about Susatos, and many posts with inflammatory language–that is a lot to take and continuously turn the other cheek.
This sort of post I find extremely unhelpful. Point to specific posts; object at the time; say good things about Susatos. But what are we to make of this “there are some around who have bad energy about Susatos”? You turn it into some big conspitorial and irrational thing.
It is not irrational to prefer one whistle over another based on sound, volume, playing characteristics, looks, price. Even if it is purely emotional, it is not irrational to discuss it on a board. This is a discussion board about whistles and the mature and sensible thing is to let everybody have their say. This is our board, we can make jokes if we want, we can be wrong, we can be short. And the idiots will out. If you just read this thread and the one that was linked you get a pretty good sense. If you read a little more you get a feel for who is posting and where they are coming from. “aha, Az likes small intimate session.” “peeeplj would skip dinner rather than same something unpleasant about a whistle.” etc etc.
All you achieve by this ominous hinting at inflamatory language is that people are going to drag up the inevitable (which people have been civil enough not to mention): That half the reason there have been inflamatory remarks about Susatos in the past is that Mike Kellhorn has on various occasions waltzed in here and given people the distinct impression that they had no business discussing Susatos and even if they did that their opinions were irrelevant.
Was that part of the negative energy you were referring to? Would you like the links?
There are certain simple rules that make things much more pleasant, without having to resort to mind-numbing nicey-nicey talk:
If you object to something, object specificly and not vaguely. Hints are okay, but don’t talk about “some people” or “bad energy” or “some always have this-or-that to say…”
If you think someone is full of cr*p, and he or she says something bad about someone else, say so. If you think someone is full of crp and he or she says something bad about you, don’t say so: let others say it for you.
*Unlike childhood, on a message board the one with the last word in a spat loses. He or she comes off as petty.
One thing is certain though: when you post a negative opinion about a whistle, whistle maker or shop, you can always expect some uncivilized answer, at least on this board.
As I read through these posts it appears that many of you have sold your Susatos, and bought what would be considered an upgrade in your whistles. Those which cost more and have more of the sound you are looking for in a whistle. As James said, doesn’t it all boil down to whose hands it’s in, and also personal preference? I see many of you own multiple whistles, and at least 11 that I could count that one person has purchased over time, as well as selling his Susatos. I still have not been convinced from anyone what a “good first whistle” might be. Although I have researched a lot to determine that. I am realizing that you all have your preferences, and I guess it boils down to find a place to start, and work your way through and up to what you like best. I know of one person who used a whistle on a CD he recorded. I’d be interested to know which one(s) were used, and if they are now sold for a better whistle.
I think I am part of the negative energy that Billchin refers to, and I haven’t sold my Susatos (not all of them, anyway). Bought a Susato C just a couple of weeks ago and plan to get a Bnat soon. Tells you something right there, doesn’t it? Not that I play them much (and I do tweak them, but that’s another story).
Anyway: 75% of my playing is Generations, Feadogs, Sindts, a Humphrey narrow bore. 20% of my playing is Overtons. The remaining 5% is everything else, including my tweaked Susatos.
(I did just get a wooden Grinter and may have revise my numbers… it’s lovely.)
I am a beginner but have been hanging around here for awhile. I have never heard of any whistle being the whistle of choice. If you look at threads where people list their favorite whistles you will see every whistle known to man listed by at least one person. So the myth really is: There is a whistle of choice. Now that you know that, it shouldn’t bother you so much that some people like Susatos.
I started out on a Susato. It was what happened to be in the store where I decided to give playing the whistle a shot. It seemed well in tune to me, although I did very little in the high register. The high notes seemed awfully shrill, but then all I knew then was to either blow, blow harder, or not blow. I had no concept of controlling how I blew. It was very loud for my situation and I have since gotten a quieter make of whistle, which some people really like and others don’t. I am keeping my Susato because I want to try it again. I must say that I think it is made very well, is comfortable, and is easy to take apart and clean.
The other thing is that it seems to me that it takes a fair amount of time to get used to a new whistle. Each of the three whistles I’ve played sounded really terrible at first. Strangely enough, they started sounding better the more I played them. I doubt the whistles were adjusting themselves to me, so it must be that I was learning something about how to play that particular whistle. If you and your friends didn’t play the Susato for more than a couple times, I would say that is not anywhere near enough to make a judgement. Once you’ve worked with a whistle for a while you might decide it’s not for you. Doubtless that conclusion has been reached by someone about every make of whistle that exists.
There are several products (including whistles) that I will not own because of the business practices or ethics of the companies in question. Could be the greatest thing since sliced bread and if you can’t deal with or trust the provider… :roll:
I’ve actually had very good service from Susato. They have always been prompt and courteous.
I would hesitate to view postings on a message board as being any kind (or any reflection on) customer service, unless they were a response to a specific problem, question, or complaint.
The initial post on this thread is, in my opinion, the one that is questionable. It seems awfully close to trolling to me, and apparently it was successful trolling, at that.
I like my Susato. It plays well, is in tune and is loud. However, I play my Humphrey, Alba or Feadog more often than any of my others. In fact I probably play the Feadog the most. The reason is these whistles have a sound that I like. The Susato has a different sound. Sometimes though I play the Susato because I am in the mood for the Susato. You pays your money and takes your choices or vice versa. I have said before and I think it is quite true. A good whistle is the one you enjoy playing. That may change from day to day.
Well, I personally don’t see any trolling done on that first message, but I guess there might be some truth in this (trolling) since so many people seem to think that way. He didnt use uncivilized language, didnt say the instrument was “playing like shite”, and it’s my vision of things that subjects like this should be allowed to be brought as long as it’s done with respect and with valid arguments. I guess if that first message was trolling then I’m one of the biggest troll here, 'cause I love to speak my mind and will honnestly tell the truth, but I’m trying to do so politely.
I found two relatively noxious posts (not Bloomfield’s) in ten minutes of searching and forwarded them to Bloomfield via PM. I’m sure a longer search would bring up more. I believe that publishing them here would only serve to bait people who have already demonstrated what I consider bad taste and little control over their temper. Bloomfield may even defend the slant and content of those posts, and that is fine–he is entitled to his opinion, wrong as it may be
I will say that the conversation has gotten more civil in recent years, and that over 95% of the posts that I glanced at that were negative on Susatos were civil. They stated their reasons, opinions, facts, and observations and did not cross the line.
The most exhilerating sound I’ve ever made with a whistle was with a Sausato. I was on vacation, and my son wanted to swim in the hotel pool late at night. We were the only ones there and it was a big, room with lots of odd angles and there was this perfect reverb and I sounded great. Even my son, who hates the whistle, thought it was good.
I don’t play my Sausato much, because it’s too loud for practicing in my house.
I had one phone conversation with Mike when I bought my whistle and I have to say I found him short and seemingly barely tolerant of my questions. I would hesitate to call again.
I would, though, happily buy another Sausato. In fact I would have stopped in when I was driving to Florida but it would have been a 6 hour detour and I wasn’t up for it at the time.
Ironically, both the post that started this thread and Mike’s angry response suffer from the same problem, a kind of failure to take into account the subjectivity involved in appraising whistles.
The declaration that Susatos are “bad” whistles is pointless. They sell well and they have plenty of fans and they can’t all be wrong.
And Mike steps in to claim someone has bad taste and to behave as though it ought to be objectively clear to everyone that Susatos are categorically good. As I’ve said, with my special gift for stating the obvious, there’s not a whistle on the planet that every player likes. Not Copelands, not Burkes, not Abells, not Overtons. None. I’m in a position to know that’s true. There’s just no need to get one’s knickers in a twist over this.
There was a survey at this forum within the last 3 months, or so, questioning peoples’ appreciation of Susato whistles. When I last checked it…most whistle players liked the Susato! Myself not one of them.
I bought 1 D Susato whistle at about $35. I’ll never buy another. IMHO, one word to describe Susato D whistles is “harsh.” Additionally, I found it difficult to play as moving to upper octave required significant amount more energy.
certainly when i play mine it sounds harsh. but one of my favorite whistlers, Sean Ryan, has played a Susato for years and it sounds as sweet as sugar in his able hands.
hey, to each his own, i’ve got a number of high end whistles and pretty much just play the Feadóg most of the time.
