Hello all, I was contemplating buying a Susato Dublin (non tunable) low G. I was wandering if any of you with one (or the tunable Kildare version) could tell me if the volume level on that whistle is as loud as the reputation of Susatos in general. I realize that it’s hard to compare the volume of whistle of different keys because of the different pitch, but how loud is the G susato compared to something like a stock Feadog D or a Syn C that I have. (both of which are at my volume tolerance limit) I don’t often play with others but I find loud whistles to be very annoying to practice with… By the way the Dublin model I was thinking of is listed on the Susato site as the medium bore… Thanks for your responses 
I have a Susato low G tunable whistle. Not sure how to compare it to your whistles, but my low G is NOT a loud whistle. It has a medium volume. Therefore, it is quieter in the second octave than many high whistles. It is a decent whistle, realatively inexpensive, and gets the job done. I purchased it because I needed it for one particular song in performance, and it worked just right.
-Casey
I also have a Susato low G and agree that it is not loud. Hint: the Susato low F has a fantastic sound!
It’s really hard to compare subjective volume. On my decibel level test meter and setup, my stock nickel Feadóg and my Susato Kildare G (M bore) both measure 70 - 80 dB in the range G to g under identical conditions. Yet the Feadóg seems louder to me because of the higher pitch.
My Susato G actually takes a nice range of breath pressure from fairly light and quiet to fairly aggressive and loud, while staying in tune. So I wouldn’t worry about it being too loud. It will sound less strident anyway because of the lower pitch, and some volume in a low whistle is a good thing if you play with other instruments.
The usual Susato caveats apply about embouchure control, breath pressure, angle of attack, etc. But I like my Susato G very much. It’s a sweet sounding, easy playing whistle.
I have both a Susato G (tunable) and a Syn set that includes the C (it’s my set that is pictured in the Syn entry in Dale’s whistle roundup). The Susato probably has more raw power than the Syn C if you ask it to, but as others noted the lower pitch makes it sound/feel more mellow. It has nowhere near the ability to drive others from the room than playing the smaller Susatos do - and I mean that in a good way as I like the Susatos, too, especially down from Bb (where the Syn gets weak).
Of all my Cs the Syn gets played the most by far.
The wide spacing between the bottom two holes on my Susato low A/G/F set drives me crazy and has me planning to send all three bodies back to Kelischek to have a key fitted on the lowest hole - but if I spent more time with them and practiced with “piper’s grip” on my right hand this would be far less of a problem.
I really do like how they sound, so they’ll be worth putting $20 each into them to make them easier to just grab and play.
Note that the Susato G can be bought either with a cylindrical bore (Dublin) or with a tapered bore (Kildare). Yes, it does make a difference!
BEC, I had the same problem at first with my Susato G. I guess the Susato spacing is a bit larger than some others. My hands are not particularly small, but my fingers are thin and curved.
Before you have keys fitted, have you tried using “pinky grip” on the bottom? I know this is considered a no-no in some circles. It’s a modified piper’s grip. A bit awkward at first, it might feel more natural pretty quickly and works well. I prefer it to a standard piper’s grip on the bigger whistles.
I use normal grip on the left hand, middle joints on holes 4 and 5, and the pad of the pinky on the bottom. The ring finger rests between holes 5 and 6, but I’ve trained my last two fingers (ring and pinky) to move as a unit, so normal muscle memory is preserved.
I’m sure the fitted keys work fine. But with pinky grip (as with piper’s grip) you don’t lose the ability to do normal taps, rolls, half-holing and finger vibrato involving the bottom hole. So it could be another solution for you to try.
Adrian, are you sure about the bores? I have only Kildare models. Measuring the inside diameter of the body joints at the top / bottom ends, the results are:
Kildare E (V bore): 10 mm / 10 mm
Kildare D (V bore): 10 mm / 10 mm
Kildare D (S bore): 12 mm / 12 mm
Kildare C (S bore): 12 mm / 12 mm
Kildare Bb (S bore): 12 mm / 12 mm
Kildare A (M bore): 15 mm / 14 mm
Kildare G (M bore): 15 mm / 14 mm
So all my Kildares are basically cylindrical. I guess the M bore whistles are slightly tapered. But I’d consider them cylindrical compared to a Clarke or Copeland with a truly tapered bore.
Thanks for the info folks. I was thinking about the Susato low G specifically because it is the smallest bore size that has keys for it available from Kelischek directly. I was actually thinking of getting Two keys for easier playing. I mostly like to play slow stuff anyway, Airs, Ballads, Waltzes and such. So I believe I could live with the keys. Just out of curiosity could one of you owners of the small bore Bb comment on the hole spacing on that model? I remember Crysania on another post commenting that she plays hers with fingertips, but added that she has long fingers. I tried my grip on a Generation Bb in a store and felt the reach on that model doable but barely so for fingertip playing.
Here are the measurements of the right hand hole distances on my Generation Bb vs. Susato Bb whistles:
Holes 4-5: Generation 21 mm / Susato 23 mm
Holes 5-6: Generation 34 mm / Susato 36 mm
So, yes, the Susato spacing is bigger (left hand spacing is about the same on both). I can play both whistles with normal grip, which is comfortable on the Gen. But I feel enough strain on the Susato that I usually opt for right hand piper’s grip on it (middle joints of all three fingers).
Honestly, there’s nothing mysterious or scary or difficult about the piper’s grip. Your middle joints are not as sensitive as the tip joints, so you don’t get as much tactile feedback. But the position is easy and can feel natural pretty quickly. I think it’s a simpler, more expressive, and more versatile solution than cumbersome keys on larger whistles. But that’s just my opinionated opinion.
BTW, DreamOgreen, when you say playing with the fingertips, I hope you don’t mean the actual tips, with your fingers curving down toward the holes. That creates a lot of unnecessary finger tension, less flexibility, and less accuracy. Instead, it’s the fleshy pads of the fingers that should cover the holes, with the fingers straight and flat but relaxed. I’d guess that’s what Crysania means, too. If you find you’re playing with the actual tips, try it this other way. You might find that it lets you handle spacing that was uncomfortable before.
Thanks for taking the time to measure the hole spacing MT. I did mean using the flat pads of the fingertips. I tried once to use the middle joint pads (a.k.a. pipers grip) on a C whistle just to see what it felt like. I was able to play but sounded terrible (Holes uncovered too much). I have a Hoover B natural on the way so mabey I’ll try the pipers grip a little more on that whistle before decideing on the key/no key issue.
I have a Dixon low G and an Alba low F. I can play both of them with my fingertips. The Dixon is not loud and has a somewhat weak bell note. The Alba is little louder and solid all the way down. As mentioned above the F is a lovely key. It has that beautiful low tone without the reach problems of a low D. The Alba has more back pressure than the Dixon which makes it play more like the Susato. Whatever sounds best to you is the right one. Any whistle takes a little while to adjust to the correct breath control, reach, etc.
Ron
Interesting idea. No, I haven’t tried it. I’m not sure I can crosswire my brain to do that on top of some of the other transitions I do regularly. An extreme example: during one song at Mass this morning I alternated between D whistle and tenor recorder on a verse by verse basis and then ended with a short bit on alto recorder.
That said, it may be worth a try.
Kelischek will put the key on the A whistle, too - I asked them. Also, I don’t see any reason why the key (unless it’s sluggish in action) would prevent doing taps or rolls involving the lower hole. Finger vibrato would probably be out, though.
Good show - Bravo! And I sympathize. I play in a recorder ensemble and switch between soprano and alto, and playing alto parts an octave up. I used to do the same in a Renaissance consort in grad school using photocopies of original 16th century manuscripts in moveable clefs. Talk about crosswiring.
Kelischek will put the key on the A whistle, too - I asked them. Also, I don’t see any reason why the key (unless it’s sluggish in action) would prevent doing taps or rolls involving the lower hole. Finger vibrato would probably be out, though.
Yes. the last time I talked to George K. he was very enthusiastic about the keys, and I’ve seen at least one good review here. You’re right, E taps and rolls should be doable if the key is fast enough. And you can use breath vibrato on E when needed. Sounds like fun.
AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!
Playing alto (or sopranino) an octave up is pretty much standard for me since most of the music I am reading for church is vocal lines that often go well below F. Somtimes it takes me a minute to get my mind around playing at written pitch on an F recorder.
That said, I used to play bassoon in high school and college but I cannot for the life of me wrap my mind around bass clef and bass recorder - I just play my wife’s like a big alto. But she can jump back and forth between clefs and C/F recorders and my son the cellist seems to have no problem with clef changes.
I’ve gotten to where I can read music with the D whistle semi-reliably and a little less so with a C. I think G is probably next. Which brings us, in a round-about way, back on topic…