Hello. I am a brand-new member of the forum; I am so glad to have found you-all. I have been teaching myself the whistle (on a Generation) and recently bought a Susato low D. I love the sound of the low D and I think it will be great for slow airs, especially. I am wondering whether to have a couple of keys added just to make it easier to play. I can reach all the holes okay by shifting my lower hand to more of a piper-style fingering but since the spacing is greater (and effectively more uneven than on a smaller whistle) I can see that it’s going to be difficult to play this with any speed. The Susato people say they can add keys after the fact and I am thinking of having one added for each lower hole. Do you more experienced players have any thoughts on this? Will it be a disadvantage in future playing in any way? I am thinking I will have somewhat less control over those holes but I think it will be worth it.
Yes, there are definitely things you cannot do with the keys, or which are more difficult. Finger vibrato, half-holing, note shading, slides. All of these are especially useful for slow airs. Cuts, taps, and rolls may sound different. The keys actually give you less control, not more.
Good! That’s the way to do it. Most low D whistles require piper’s grip, at least on the lower hand. I think the Susato spacing is a little harder than some, but it sounds like you can manage it.
Yes, there are definitely things you cannot do with the keys, or which are more difficult. Finger vibrato, half-holing, note shading, slides. All of these are especially useful for slow airs. Cuts, taps, and rolls may sound different. The keys actually give you less control, not more.
That’s what I was afraid of. I’m still weighing the potential benefits of the keys in more precise finger placement, though, so forgive me if I probe a little deeper. I do manage to reach and cover the holes but often doing it dependably – especially on the low D – is problematic. It’s difficult for me to reliably get that wide stretch between the B2 (bottom #2) and B3 holes when, for example, I’m just jumping directly down to it. Perhaps I’ll get a lot better at it with time but it worries me. I wonder if the loss of the ability to slide or half hole on that bottom D hole is really as important. Do you catch my drift? I use a diaphragm vibrato (I used to be a bassoonist) and don’t know what note shading is but I’m wondering if these are worth the imprecision I am seeing and suspect I will always see in playing particularly the low D (and perhaps the T3 hole at G).
Do you find yourself half-holing a lot? Can you be precise enough to make it sound good? (I guess if the answer to the first question is ‘yes’ then so will the answer be to the second!). Do you slide much from a low D to an E (i.e. maybe when you’re playing in E minor or E Dorian)?
I will give you my 2 cents worth as a low whistle beginner. I have medium sized hands and I found that using the pipers grip is a necessity. Initially trying to play even a scale was terrible, but I would put down my soprano whistle and still pick up the low whistle now and again just to try it for a few minutes. The hand position was so unfamiliar that certain finger muscles ached after trying to play.
Eventually the aching subsided and the sound did improve.
So the moral is don’t try to get it all at once. Try a little at a time and stick with it.
Sure, I use all those techniques, a lot. They’re all standard, and they all sound good. For example, I often slide up into rolls. Half-holing F-nat is pretty common. Shading B3 is the only way to do a finger vibrato on E. Shading = altering pitch by partially covering a lower hole, for intonation or expression.
Yes, that can feel like doing the Vulcan salute. The trick is to consider your B3 finger your anchor, your fixed point, using the pad of the fingertip. The position of the other 2 fingers follows. If instead you focus on B1 and B2 first, chances are you’re going to keep missing B3. The stretch does get easier the more you do it.
As an alternative, you can use your pinky to cover B3 to anchor the piper’s grip, with the B1 and B2 fingers as before. Your ring finger then rests between the B2 and B3 holes, and moves together with the pinky, as if locked together.
Well, diaphragm vibrato is basically a no-no in Irish whistle style. Unless you want to sound like a classical bassoonist playing the whistle. OK, it’s not as black-and-white as that, but outlawing breath vibrato is a good starting point.
As full disclosure, I should say I’ve never (yet) tried the Susato whistle keys, so I can’t critique them outright. I suppose that, as with any covered key arrangement (and I’ve played sax and Boehm flute), you can find ways to approximate the desired techniques. But they’ll be approximations.
I think Pipe Bender’s experience above is pretty normal.
If you end up loving the low D whistle but unable to deal with the finger spacing (I have really skinny fingers and some arthritis), I would recommend the WD Sweet ONYX whistle. It is more expensive, though. Being a conical bore whistle, the finger spacing is closer. It is still a stretch, but very manageable. I really enjoy mine.
Don’t give up on your keyless Susato just yet-it does take some time to become comfortable with piper’s grip. Then most wonder why they had so much trouble in the beginning-but that’s just the way it is with something new.
If Susato can retrofit keys, then there is really no hurry-you’ll know in a short time if it will work for you or not, with more time in. Those keys may negatively affect your music, and maybe tone too.
Besides, there are other low whistles that have friendlier finger spacing in low D’s, and of course, you can always choose a little higher key like low Eb of F that will still produce a haunting low timbre for those slow airs you like, and are easier to play with the shorter stretches.
Since Susato started offering (I’d almost say pushing) the keys, I’ve wondered who the “target market” for them is. No trad whistle player is going to find them attractive, because they limit and interfere with technique. And they’re a disservice to most beginners, like unnecessary training wheels. Maybe for children who for some reason must play a low whistle. Or if you’re satisfied playing the whistle only as a kind of diatonic recorder, for contradance music or the like. Small markets, both, I’d think. Otherwise, they seem like a solution in search of a problem.
I like Susato whistles (and the Kelischeks), but the keys have always left me scratching my head.
OK, it’s not as black-and-white as that, but outlawing breath vibrato is a good starting point.