Stretch and distance between holes

Irish Flute
1

I just saw the picture in Jon C’s thread and I noticed that the distance between the 5th and 6th hole (E-D) seems very “user-friendly”; meaning almost similar to that between the 4th and 5th hole (F-E) = not that much stretch required. I play a M&E polymer and the holes on that seem almost similar to that shown in the picture, distancewise.

A short while ago I had the opportunity to play a Murray blackwood, and the distance between the 5th and 6th hole was approximately 5 mm longer than my M&E making it rather unhandy, I think. The owner could of course play it without any problems so I guess it’s a matter of getting used to it. Nevertheless I would reckon that big a stretch like that would force you to play with pipers grip?

Anyway, so the size of the holes and the distance of the holes from the embouchure make the flute play the right sound/tones – but I can’t get over this big difference in distance between the 5th and 6th hole. Why is that? Does it relate to the inside diameter of the flute? And why would you prefer such a long stretch – or is the long stretch required for a certain “sound” of the flute? I’m baffled :slight_smile:

I’m thinking that if I ever want to get another flute I would go for one with a similar “user-friendly” stretch as my M&E – but that’s in the future :slight_smile:


Have a nice weekend! :slight_smile:
Brian

2

Brian,
Do consider that when you decide on a flute. Some folks can get used to the stretch, and some can’t. It may be an issue of comfort, in which case you can probably figure it out, but if your hand size or your arthritis cause some limitations it’s best to pay attention to those limitations.

I found that a stretch that really bothers me on a whistle isn’t quite so bad on a flute, because of the transverse position.

I envy people with big flexible hands! If I ever get a chance at an absolutely perfect instrument, but that 5 to 6 stretch is too long, I’m going to have to pass it up. :frowning:

Jennie

3

There’s a really good reason for the bigger gap between holes 5 and 6 compared to holes 4 and 5. Hole 5 up to hole 4 is one semitone, but down to hole 6 is two semitones - a full tone. So there should be a 2:1 ratio in the spacing! Indeed, because of the logarithmic nature of semitones, the R2-3 gap should be slightly more than double R1-2 (just as the frets on a guitar get further apart as you go down in pitch).

Unfortunately, our hands cannot accomodate that - try it. Spread fingers R1 and R3 on the table top, lift R2 and let it drop. You can force it closer to R1 but it doesn’t like it and it won’t enjoy staying there while playing.

Because of this human failing, the F# hole (5) is set too low on the flute and has to be made larger to coorect the pitch that this location generates. And the E hole (6) is set too high and has to be made too small.

McGee-Flutes Genetics Division is working on the problem for the benefit of future generations …

When Siccama added two extra keys in 1847 to extend the reach of L3 and R3, he took advantage of this to move the F# hole up to where it should be, as well as moving the E hole down to where it should be. A very thorough man.

Here’s an image of one of my Siccama flutes, compared to one of my Rudall flutes, chosen as the images are about the same scale. You can see how much further down the R3 key puts the E pad on the Siccama. Indeed you can see the 2:1 ratio at work. With the F natural key also where it should be, about halfway between E and F#.

Hope that helps!

Terry

4

Thanks Terry, nice explanation.

5

Hi Brian,
The stretch is easy on this old flute. One of the tricks, as with this flute, The R3 hole is drilled at an angle to shorten the reach. It also helps that the holes are small.

6

Ah, clever stuff. Thank you all for the explanations/replies. A small follow-up; when you see flutes with huge gaps between holes 5 and 6, making the stretch “unhandy” - why is that design used? Does that particular layout of holes (smaller, I guess) create a distinct sound, or why would you create a hole-layout that’s not as “user-friendly” as possible?

Thanks again.

Brian

7

I’m a bit confused by this and I wonder if you could help me out. You seem to be using a different numbering system than Brian, who numbered E=5 and D=6. But your explanation of semitones only makes sense if you use the numbering quoted above, so I presume you did this intentionally. That would make D=7, so there’s an extra hole (C nat?) that I’m not expecting in there somewhere. Would you mind filling in the other numbers for me?

P.S.: I did read your FAQ before asking… :slight_smile:

Thanks!

8

The holes are named for the note the control the pitch of.
C# = 1, G = 4, D= 7 or short foot

XXX OOO the 3rd X is not G, G is the 1st O

9

That makes it:

X  X  X    O  O  O
1  2  3    4  5  6
C# B  A    G  F# E
...where the fingering above plays the G note.

That makes sense now; thanks very much!

I now realized it was the note names (which hole is called “G”) rather than the numbering which confused me. I can see the sense of this from an acoustical point of view, but it’s a different scheme than I’ve seen in some tutorials and discussions. Is this “more correct” or is there a name for this scheme as opposed to that which considers L3 to be “G”?

Just curious, and sorry if I’m thread-jacking. :blush:

10

Ah yes, I did the numbering based on fingering; all 6 covered holes = D etc. :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Brian