Well, C for myself actually. I was just remembering the silly alphabet:
A is for 'orses
B fer up
C for yourself
D fer Kate
etc …
I’ve been under considerable domestic pressure (by She Who Must Be Accompanied) to extend my range of flute pitches (why do singers not like D?), so when a customer asked me for a C flute, I finally got around to developing one. Mmmm, nice. I’ll definitely have one of those too!
So, while my C flute is cooking, my question for those of you who have C flutes, what do you find them useful for? Clearly in accompanying singing, and just as another voice for variety in a concert, but what about tunes? I imagine some Dm tunes could be handled more comfortably than on the D? Any suggestions?
I like the C for giggles… Nice and resonant… Inspires you to play certain tunes that might otherwise not come to you… I wouldn’t play one in sessions - more on my own (that is if I had one…)
I want a C flute to play along with my fellow flat set pipers. The key of C is quite a popular flat set key. And at tionols often sessions occur in the key of C. It has that nice flat set mellowness, but the stretch isn’t too killer. The fiddlers seem to like dropping down to C, so why not a flute that can play with them?
I’d want a flute in C that could still pull off ornaments. I.e. not be too sluggish. Wadda think? A GLP pitched in C maybe?
Okay, call me stupid, but what is wrong with the C foot that lets you go down to the C? With keys already down to that, you should be able to do anything. If you make a C flute, then isn’t it designed to play the tune in C because you did not want to use keys?
Not trying to be a jerk, I just do not understand. At all.
While I don’t have a C flute, having one would be insanely useful for playing early music (IE medieval/renaissance) on something other than a recorder.
Okay, call me stupid, but what is wrong with the C foot that lets you go down to the C? With keys already down to that, you should be able to do anything. If you make a C flute, then isn’t it designed to play the tune in C because you did not want to use keys?
Not trying to be a jerk, I just do not understand. At all.
All a C flute does is extend the D scale down an extra note. It does NOT transpose the interval (Step/Halfstep) relationship of notes in the D scale.
Regarding playing with C - pipes- to do that on a D flute, you’d need a lot of keys (Pretty much a full complement) but moreover, you’d need to relearn every single tune in your repertoire with a different fingering. But with two flutes, you could just pick up the second one (in C) and use all the fingerings you know and love. MOreover, it would probably be cheaper in the long run. Seems fairly straightforward unless I am missing something. . .
IF I were to get a C flute with keys, I’d get whatever the equivalent of Fnat would be. I find that flattened third to be the most useful accidental, by far. But, you already knew that
Indeed. I decided to make it a bigger bore than a D flute, in order to give a big resonant bottom end. Seems to me that one of the attractions is to have a different, lower voice, rather than the same voice as the D flute pushed a bit further down.
Indeed, and I’d rather forgotten the C flat set. I’ve already done a B to go with a flat set, so between them, that probably covers the most of them. The stretch is a matter of decision by the maker - the wider you make it the more even the response, but at the cost of comfort. I set it more than the D flute and less than the Bb, and I’m happy with both stretch and response.
The Laws of Physics do require a bigger flute to take proportionally more time to stabilise, but I didn’t feel I was being hampered playing fast reels up to speed. I’ll get a better impression when the poor thing is finished - currently it’s half-turned, with rough patches, no rings, no tenon corks, bore unpolished and unoiled. It can only get better!
Nothing at all wrong with a fully keyed D flute running down to C. I think though different people find different approaches more suited to them. There are those who revel in being able to play in all keys on their keyed D flutes, and others who prefer to capitalise on their heavy investment in learning the main scales by using flutes (or whistles) in other keys to do the transposition for them.
I guess the different voice that a bigger bored flute has to offer is also a factor. And indeed, the chirpier response of the Eb flute can be pretty seductive too.
Well, this is a very interesting discussion as I am the customer Terry is developing this C flute in response to. I use a C flute in my band mostly to accompany the singers and also for the odd D and A dorian tunes.
Terry, I’m glad to hear about the larger bore which will hopefully lead to a nice sonerous low end. While I’ll be playing some jigs and reels on it, the resonant lows are very complementary to song harmonies, which I do frequently.
Used a 26mm bore (cylindrical) on my “C” frankenflute. The bottom is wonderful but its only really useful for an octave and a half…(or my fingers are only really…)
I have a very nice CBurns boxwood C.
It’s deeper and more sonorous but still
responsive. I play it a lot just because I
like the sound. Also it helps accompany singers.
Also I play along with CDs a good deal
and the C flute is often in tune with them.
Not to be pedantic, but doesn’t A-dorian work on a keyless D-flute via a cross-fingered c-natural?
Wormdiet is right I should have said A Aeolian (sorry it was 3am after a gig).
We play a set with Chickens Are A’ Crowin’ in E Phrygian (kind of E minorish flavor) followed by Julia Delaney reel in A Aeolian (kind of A minorish flavor). Both of these modal keys have no sharps or flats and are easier to play on a C flute. Then there is a tune like Planxty Drew which is often played in G Dorian and, therefore, has one flat. While I can play it on my fully keyed McGee it is awkward and slower for me with the Bb and F natural to contend with; but if I play it on a C flute as though it had one sharp it is easy.
Why the heck do we play in some of these keys? I our case it just kind of happens …someone (usually a fiddler or mandolin player) brings out a new tune in a good sounding key and easy to play for them but whistle/flute unfriendly - so we start breaking out different sized instruments to keep up with the learning curve. I envy anyone who can play a keyed simple system flute in any key up to speed. I know it can be done - and I can do it on a Boehm - but I’ve never invested the time to get that facility with my wooden flutes. Just not enough time and too many tunes to learn!
Woah, that is big, and no doubt accounts for the limit in range. I’m using just under 21mm, and the response goes easily to at least “G” (err that’s F on a C flute) (I haven’t tried any higher and the flute is all pulled apart again for further work). Now that raises another interesting question - how high should we aim for a C flute? (Remembering you can’t have your cake and eat it to - to get a higher range you need a narrower bore and that means a less resonant bottom octave.)
very interesting stuff on the physics of the lower flutes. . . . I’d be curious about the bore dimensions of even lower flutes, the B/Bb/A range.
(No ulterior motives in that question )
I would think in just about any flute for Irish music, you’d want to get to, minimally, the 6th scale degree in the second octave… if you intend to play tunes with identical fingering to a D flute. How often does a second-octave C or C natural really show up? Any more on the top end would make it more flexible, however.
I guess that I have found a difference even in My Bb fifes depending on the bore size. The smaller the bore the “Brighter” the sound (I believe it has something to do with the fundamental note and how loud it is)
As for bore size, wouldn’t a larger bore also cause closer finger spacing? Or would it be so insignificant (and adjustable by hole size) that it is not worth considering.
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