For those reading this, I have a followup post on
the second page of this thread – we got a Casey Burns Folk flute
My daughter spent last year on a soprano d recorder, and for her music recital chose an irish hornpipe – she’s hearing a lot of that celtic stuff around the house , and has developed a good sense for the music. She is pretty good on the recorder after only 9 months, but is interested now in flute, and going the irish music route.
I’m leaning towards a soprano D fife, perhaps one of Ralph Sweet’s which run in the $70 range. This is my reasoning (and PLEASE chime in with advice, I’m not a flute person):
I ruled out a tenor G because I don’t believe she’d have enough airpower and would get frustrated.
I ruled out the cheaper fifes, because I think she may find it more difficult to get a good tone. (Does higher price mean easier to play?)
I ruled out those crystal fifes because she is only 10 …
I ruled in key of D because she likes playing the tunes I play, which are mostly in the key of D.
Should I consider a polymer fife? i.e. are there enough care and feeding issues with the wood flute that must be done after every use that it might become more of a chore than a pleasure for her?
If you want a D instrument, Ralph Sweet’s fifes are in my opinion pretty darn nice. I do think D fifes are harder to get a good tone out of compared to a flute because of the smaller embouchure size. Ralph’s renaissance fife is pretty nice, too, but it is non-tunable. BTW, I’ve owned both a folk fife in D and his renaissance fife in D.
If you don’t care what the key is, and really just want to explore the fife/flute technique, the cooperman plastic fife is often recommended by fifers as a starting instrument and it’s only $6:
I’m going to order one for my soon to be 6 year old soon. He’s real excited because he can blow a C# or a high C# at will on my Seery now, but his fingers and hands are way too small to cover any of the tone holes.
Thanks for that, I have to give it a hard look for $6! I just edited my main post because key of D is important because my daughter likes playing the tunes I play, which are mostly in D.
I would not recommend a fife - it is a different instrument, and when she wants to learn the flute and irish music, a fife and band / marching music might just frustrate her.
I know I sound like a broken record, but have a look at Hammy Hamilton’s practice flutes: http://homepage.tinet.ie/~hammie/practice.htm. They are meant for beginners, they are not expensive, and they are close to the “real thing”. The site recommends the normal sized D for children aged 10 and older, and the one in G for younger ones.
I’d say Hammy’s practice flute is ideal for moving to the real thing, and determining if the interest will last before a larger investment. Frankly, a 10-year should be able to handle an Irish flute in D. Teachers often start silver Boehm flute students at 7 years old. The initial breathing/dizziness soon passes - just take it easy and/or keep her seated until you’re past it. And get her a high-D whistle instead of the recorder. This will give her additional opportunity for practicing the fingering, while the flute breathing and embouchure come along.
I’d agree with Kevin. Start with a real flute. I started Boehm flute in 6th grade, so I would have been about 10 or 11. Dizzyness from hyperventilating only a problem for a few weeks till I figured out the embouchure. By the time I could play 3 notes it was no longer a problem. Plus the flute is an octave lower…much easier on everyone’s ears.
If a Hamilton is too expensive, you might try one of Doug Tipple’s…but contact him to discuss finger spacing.
Advice about using a D whistle is also good. I’m principally a flute player, but while I’m working on my embouchure and wind power after a XXXX year hiatus and some medical issues, I find the whistle a good way to keep playing when my lungs give out.
There are 3 high D whistles in the house, and I’m moving her to those ASAP so she can relearn the proper way to finger an F#
Her hands are small - I don’t think she can span the distance between holes on a full sized flute (I’m making a “Doug Tipple flute” which is my reference on the finger holes).
Sonja - It looked to me like Ralph Sweet’s fife would be a reasonable intermediate step - but is the technique of blowing on the embroucher so much different that she’d have to start all over when she gets big enough for a low D? As far as I can tell the fingering is the same on Ralph Sweet’s fife as the low D flute?
Dixon piccolos have a bohem style head which will make it eaiser to play. Don’t know how they are I only have one of his whistles which is GREAT hard to find a better whistle out of the box.
10 is plenty old to be playing a real Irish wooden flute in D. I’ve seen plenty of kids younger than that playing with no problem. Really, I think this whole thing about people complaining about small hands and finger spread is misguided. I have smaller hands than most people I know and I’ve had no problem on any flute I’ve played, down to low Bb. When getting started on flute, no-matter what the finger spread, one will usually experience a little pain as the hands get used to a new position and new instrument. However, I think the majority of that pain is actually caused by stress and nervousness, not the stretch. Stretching, breathing and just relaxing makes it all much, much easier.
That said, if your daughter wants to play Irish music then she should be playing a real Irish flute. Fife or silver flute really won’t suffice. The fife has a very different tone and reacts differently as an instrument. Silver flute will teach her how to play silver flute, but will probably lead her away from Irish music since it is so tough to play Irish music in the traditional style of silver flute.
I would recommend skipping Hammy’s practice flutes. Instead, order your daughter a real Irish wooden flute. Hammy’s are top notch, relatively low in price, and can be aquired fairly quickly. Other choices for less expensive but top notch instruments are Gilles LeHart, Eamonn Cotter and David Copley.
Another great idea would be to buy her a few Olwell bamboo flutes in higher pitched keys like Eb, F and G. They’re awesome flutes and she’ll just love them. As a matter of fact, it would be a great idea to just give Patrick a call and ask him what advice he has in regards to flutes for younger players. Both his sons play and began when they were young, so he has firsthand experience.
Warning - I have a Dixon Duo (Low D). I play the flute head a lot more than the whistle head, but although it’s not difficult to play, it’s harder to play than a real flute. Even though the Dixon is often recommended as a good “small hands” Low D, a conical flute is easier still, and will be easier to get a good tone from as well.
I’ve had a chance to try a couple of the Casey Burns folk flutes and they are a LOT easier to play (or even to get a sound from) than the Dixon.
And although the Dixon is a reasonable “late night” Low D (very low air requirements, very low volume) it has almost none of the “boom” you expect from a Low whistle. I think it sounds a lot better as a flute than a whistle, actually - once you’ve figured out the embouchure it has pretty good volume as a flute.
I think the Dixon Duo flutes are really hard to play and not of very good quality. Go visit Casey Burns, and bring your daughter along. He’ll make you a really nice flute and I bet he’ll even design it specifically to accomodate her fingers.
I’m with Chris on the hand-size issue, and have about hit the wall on the whole thing. I mean, c’mon. If the fact that hundreds of thousands of kids have learned on full-size instruments for the last however many decades doesn’t make the point, think of all those little Irish kids in the old ceili/school band pictures.
Meanwhile, the Casey Burns might be a happy, reasonably-priced middleground for you both – if your daughter keeps at it, she can grow with it for a few years; if she gets bored with it, you’ll have a nice-sounding wooden flute that’s very user-friendly for yourself, or to sell on to someone else.
The Hammy practice flute is great and does solve a problem, but IMO, for the price the Burns might be just the ticket for all of you.
P.S. Oddly, after about a year of it just lying on the piano, I picked up my Dixon Low D Duo (in flute mode) this morning. I agree with DCrom that the whistle head’s rather a non-contender; I don’t even know where mine is – and I also have to say I don’t think the body’s that different a reach than my Pratten Hamilton. Overall, I think the Dixon’s fine for a plastic flute, but not very rewarding for a beginner.
Thank you. It’s good to hear these re-assurances. I want to err on the side of wanting my daughter to have an enjoyable experience moving on to flute, and the two biggests concerns were having enough air, and the finger stretch. I’m now convinced those are not going to be a problem.
I hope you guys have fun! And I’m not saying it’s going to be easy – but thousands of people have played through the rough stuff and turned out just fine.
The thing is, though, they KEPT playing UNTIL they played through it.
(You play music, you know how it goes. )
(And believe me, it’s the same everywhere. I’ve spent so much money on various “cure-all” space-age saddles (and if anyone thinks a flute costs a lot …) trying to make my dressage horses more comfortable, I know about wanting to reduce barriers to success. But ultimately, while the saddles helped some, they didn’t make that much difference. FINALLY learning how to ride the horses right, however, has changed everything.)
Anyway, have a blast and good luck! It’s a good value for the dollar.
