I know what the standard stuff is at local sessions, but I wonder how much of it is standard elsewhere.
Could a few people mention a few standard session tunes in your area? I’m curious how standard the “standard tunes” reallly are.
I assume The Kesh and Boys of Bluehill were excluded because they’re too well know, is that correct?
Thanks. -Brett
Bretton,
Your questions are obviously too much on-topic to merit any attention!
The question about local favourite session tunes has been asked a few times in the past, if you care to do a search. I can’t be bothered to list tunes that are standard in my local area - it’s a list that I find too short, anyway!
But I mused over your question about what is standard stuff, and came to the conclusion, on the basis of the session I mentioned, that what I consider “standard stuff” would probably come close to 1,000 tunes, at least 60 per cent of which are probably reels, maybe 25 per cent jigs, and 15 per cent for everything else.
Now Paddy O’Brien didn’t play 1,000 tunes that night, but he could have played any of 1,000 tunes without being overly esoteric. And I’m not saying I knew everything that he played that night, but I knew a goodly chunk of them, and recognized many of the others.
Collections such as LE’s FIST, Mally’s 100 Essential Irish Session Tunes, etc. suggest that you can hold your own with 100 tunes, but if you’re going to travel widely through the IrTrad community you’ll want to have a few more than that under your belt.
I saw a fiddle-case sticker that said “So many tunes… so little time”. I dislike the idea of a race to acquire as many tunes as possible. I prefer a steady pace… take courage - over 25 years, 1,000 tunes is less than one a week!
Steve
Cold comfort, Steve, cold comfort. 
Currently I know about 40 tunes, I think (I find it really hard to count them). That is enough to play at sessions around here, but I do sit out every other tune. Some days less, some days more.
I have seen lists of “standard tunes”, one well over 600 tunes long, others shorter. Below is a link to a thread at http://www.thesession.com. The author of the relevant first posts, a seasoned amateur fiddler from Montana iirc, lists 160 reel, 76 jigs, and then misc. tunes. (I find his list distincly short on Polkas.) The main value I have found in these lists is in observing the overlap from one list to another.
BTW, take the chance and look around TheSession abit: It is a great, friendly place with a terrific community and wonderful collection of tunes. (Create your own tune book and print it out at high resolution. Cool).
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/110
To get a sense for “standards”, also pick up such collections as Walsh’ Session Tunes, which are readily available as ABC or pdf.
\
/bloomfield
[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-02-28 19:35 ]
For the first few years I was playing Irish music I used to keep a little notebook and assiduously write down all the tunes I knew in it. I probably had about as many as your man the fiddler when I stopped adding to it.
I really couldn’t be bothered to make a list now - anyway it’d never be complete. Often enough at a session you’ll hear a tune that you forgot you knew, or play along with one that you hadn’t realized you could play. Those ones are part of the “passive repertoire” - you’d never think of them, but they’re lurking somewhere among the neurons.
On 2002-02-28 17:40, StevieJ wrote:
. . . everything else.Now Paddy O’Brien didn’t play 1,000 tunes that night, but he could have played any of 1,000 tunes without being overly esoteric. And I’m not saying I knew everything that he played that night, but I knew a goodly chunk of them, and recognized many of the others.
Stevie, did you skip a tale of Paddy? If you did, I’d love to hear it.
Mark, who is still saving $100 for Paddy’s 500 tune cassette set.
On 2002-02-28 17:40, StevieJ wrote:
Bretton,Your questions are obviously too much on-topic to merit any attention!
Absolutely! So how 'bout that chick from the Corrs?
~Firefly
Ducking and running…
Below is a link to a thread at > http://www.thesession.com> . The author of the relevant first posts, a seasoned amateur fiddler from Montana iirc, lists 160 reel, 76 jigs, and then misc. tunes. (I find his list distincly short on Polkas.) The main value I have found in these lists is in observing the overlap from one list to another.
BTW, take the chance and look around TheSession abit: It is a great, friendly place with a terrific community and wonderful collection of tunes. (Create your own tune book and print it out at high resolution. Cool).
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/110
/bloomfield
[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-02-28 19:35 ]
I agree with bloomfield. The session site is a wonderful place to find music. The discussions on average stay on-topic. There is a lot of info covered there. Not just locked in the whistle subject.
Laura
On 2002-02-28 23:42, Mark_J wrote:
Stevie, did you skip a tale of Paddy? If you did, I’d love to hear it.
The quote in red in Bretton’s initial post came from a message in the “Trouble with young players” thread. I mentioned a session at East Durham last July in can’t remember the name of the pub, it was on the Friday night I believe, and P. O’B, Tommy P and Mary B were leading a monster session, along with by the man I call Zan McLoud. Were you at that particular evening? I don’t think you were…
I’m not a big accordion fan but Paddy O’Brien is great!
I have a question about “easy” tunes and “standard” tunes. I wasn’t sure if I should post it here or in the Langan thread.
Are easy tunes and standard tunes the same thing? Are the tunes that one should strive to learn to be a good piper (whistler) just the tunes that are played most often in sessions? Or are there other criteria for separating easy from hard tunes, standard from non-standard tunes?
When it comes to technical difficulty, there are differences, at least for me. Tripping up the Stairs is easyer than the Kesh, which is easier than An Phis Fluich (The Wet Fish 
). The Wind That Shakes the Barley is easier than Cooley’s, which is easier than the Drunken Landlady, which is easier than The Gravel Walks. Off to California is easier than the Wicklow Hornpipe. Etc, etc. But this kind of technical difficulty is differnt from instrument to instrument. I’ve heard fiddlers discuss endlessly “difficult” passages with tricky cross-bowings and so forth and I wanted to say to them: It’s a piece of cake! Just don’t vent the first hole on the high D and keep the bottom three fingers down on the B, and you’re all set…
But are there differences I haven’t grasped yet, say between a really old traditional tune, like the Hag In The Churn, and modern traditional tunes, like some of Ed Reavy’s or Liz Carrol’s Diplodocus? Perhaps differences in structure or style? I know of a few composed recent tunes that are fairly standard session fare, like the Windmill, the Snowy Path, the Kerfuntan. Is it not going to make you “a good piper” if you learn the Ashokan Farewell?
(After re-reading this, I hope that those with greater wisdom than I will be able to cull more sense from this post than I seem to have managed to instill in it…)
On 2002-03-01 13:20, Bloomfield wrote:
Q1 Are easy tunes and standard tunes the same thing?
No, the tried and trusted or standard tunes may have varying levels of difficulty (and may be easy on some and difficult on other instruments) but they don’t set out to push the envelope or to be vehicles for virtuosity, unlike many modern compositions.
Q2 Are the tunes that one should strive to learn to be a good piper (whistler) just the tunes that are played most often in sessions?
I think you may be taking taking Chris’ Langan’s comment farther than he intended. I think he only meant don’t tackle showy-offy virtuoso tunes until you’ve got the chops to handle them, and that means doing your journeywork on the standard tunes. Strictly my interpretation, Chris is no longer with us so we can’t ask him.
Q3 Or are there other criteria for separating easy from hard tunes, standard from non-standard tunes?
Hmm I think we are in danger of creating artificial and distinctions - again taking Chris’ words too literally. I’d have thought that experience would tell you the difference between easy tunes and hard tunes; standard was my word, and I meant just what is common currency in IrTrad circles around the world.
Q4 But are there differences I haven’t grasped yet, say between a really old traditional tune, like the Hag In The Churn, and modern traditional tunes, like some of Ed Reavy’s or Liz Carrol’s Diplodocus?
I don’t know Diplodocus, so can’t comment. But I’d say that Reavy, Liz C and many other composers have introduced new elements into their tunes, straying from the well-worn modes and the patterns that you find in tunes like Hag at the Churn (which would probably be better translated as The Old Lady Making Butter - she’s never been IN the churn as far as I know).
It’s interesting to note that as Reavy’s tunes enter the tradition, some of the odd little passages he put it get expunged - the tunes get “reworded” in a more traditional idiom. Listen to Kevin Burke’s Maudebawn Chapel (which he got from the wonderful Galway fiddler, the late Mairtin Byrnes) and compare with Ed Reavy’s notated version - the differences are very illuminating.
Q5 Perhaps differences in structure or style? I know of a few composed recent tunes that are fairly standard session fare, like the Windmill, the Snowy Path, the Kerfuntan.
Perhaps. I don’t want to have to think about this too much - I want my tea. But the Kerfun-whatever is very traditional-sounding. The others have less of an old perfume about them.
Gapped scales are amazingly common in the older tunes, although regrettably modern players, in their search for variation, are increasingly tending to fill in the gaps -through insensitivity or ignorance.
Q6 Is it not going to make you “a good piper” if you learn the Ashokan Farewell?
You decide on that one.
HTH, my speculations only,
Steve
PS If Bob Pegritz were to comment on this thread and accuse it of digressing into techno-crap, I think I might be inclined to concede that he had a point!
Thanks for the illuminating techno crap, Steve, I appreciate it. But wouldn’t want to keep you from your tea, naturally.
Hag In the Churn. I read that this is the proper translation, and that there is a story to it. In the old days there was a belief that a hag (witch) was often present when cream was churned into butter, and that the hag resided in the churn where she would proceed to steal the butter. The tune by that name was played or lilted when butter was churned because hags/witches couldn’t stand that particular tune. They would be driven away. That meant a serious mark against a woman who was seen to leave the house while the tune was being played or lilted: She was a witch.
The Diplodocus is worth checking out, btw: great tune. Oh, and I’ve decided that the Ashokan Farewell is not a step on the (shortest) path to being a good piper or whistleplayer.
I agree with you on the gapped scales: It always bugs me when I hear E-F#-G triplet runs in tunes that are distinctly F#-less. Spoils the mood.
Speaking of Bob P: I wouldn’t mind a gentle reminder to play from the heart. I don’t think he has posted lately. I saw him two weeks ago but didn’t have a chance to talk with him.
[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-03-01 17:16 ]
Question for StevieJ: Is Maudabawn Chapel a copyrighted tune? I play Kevin Burke’s version (the only version I’ve heard recorded), but I want to mainly stay away from copyrighted stuff so I have complete freedom to use what I know. I assume Burke’s version is just as copyrighted as Reavy’s original??
Tony
On 2002-03-01 19:42, TonyHiggins wrote:
Is Maudabawn Chapel a copyrighted tune? I play Kevin Burke’s version (the only version I’ve heard recorded), but I want to mainly stay away from copyrighted stuff so I have complete freedom to use what I know. I assume Burke’s version is just as copyrighted as Reavy’s original??
I dunno Tony. To me it’s obvious that variant versions such as Maudabawn Chapel as played by Kevin Burke are still Reavy’s composition - the liner notes say so, anyway. OTOH did Green Linnet pay any money to the Ed Reavy Foundation for Burke’s recording of the tune? I’d have a bet with you on that one… (not saying which way I’d bet mind you in case anyone’s lawyers are reading this).
An ABC file containing all Reavy’s compositions is available on the web somewhere from a site managed by his son.
Here’s a part of what it says in the text header of that file:
This file contains the collected compostions of Ed Reavy, VERSION 1.0. It is for personal use and the music must not be included in any books, performances or recordings without the express premission of the Ed Reavy Foundation.Ed Reavy, Jr., President
Ed Reavy Non-Profit Foundation
2004 Aspen Circle
Springfield, PA, USA, 19064
ereavy@blueskiesink.com
(c) Copyright Ed Reavy Non-Profit Foundation. This file:
- May be distributed freely (with restrictions below).
- May not be used for commercial purposes (such as printing a tune book to sell).
- This copyright notice must be kept, except when e-mailing individual tunes.
- May be printed on paper for personal use.
- Questions? E-mail: bil@blueskiesink.com
I’m sending you the file, Tony. (If anyone else wants it please get if off the web. I haven’t the web address handy.)
Copyrighting original tunes composed “in the tradition” is a little weird to my way of thinking. After all we’ve all made free use of everyone else’s compositions.
I can’t make up my mind about it - I’ve composed a few tunes and one in particular has proved a bit of a hit - people have been urging me to copyright it because they’re sure someone is going to want to record it one day and make loadsamoney out of my creation. Hahaha.
With regard to Reavy tunes, if you’re wary of using them, why not just email the address above and explain the context? I cannot imagine them getting heavy with you, but…
Does this help? I doubt it somehow
Steve
On 2002-03-01 19:42, TonyHiggins wrote:
Question for StevieJ: Is Maudabawn Chapel a copyrighted tune? I play Kevin Burke’s version (the only version I’ve heard recorded), but I want to mainly stay away from copyrighted stuff so I have complete freedom to use what I know. I assume Burke’s version is just as copyrighted as Reavy’s original??
Tony
A good few Reavey’s tunes have been absorbed into the tradition, I don’t realy think copyright applies or that anyone would bother about it. The tune was also recorded by the way by Mairtin Byrnes, it’s on the Noel Hill/Tony Linnane recording and there are a few more I think: I have Bobby Casey playing it on a tape, it 's in the Tommy Peoples fiddle collection and on the tape that goes with it..(better go now before I think of any more)
There are a lot of tunes going round and few people realise who the composers are.
Breandan McGlinchey has supposedly composed about 80, I know of two, one of which I played for years without realising it was his. Still I am likely to have a good few more.
I wondered if Kevin Crawford was avoiding copyright issues when he recorded Paddy O Brien’s The Swallows Nest as The Stolen Reel but maybe he wasn’t, the new title may suggest otherwise though.
Don’t worry about it too much, most of the Reavy tunes that are recorded acknowledge him as composer but I don’t reacall seeing (c) with them.
I add/edit in here: I have a Reevey book, no restrictions are given in that publication.
And on the ethical side of things: the way the tradition goes : if you let a tune go out there it is in the public domain, it becomes property of the trad community and becomes subject to it’s rules, the tune will be modified and changed to suit other players and that’s the way it should be (I think a lot of the Reevey tunes have considerably improved after having been through the hands of good players).
All the great traditional composers have tunes out there: they pass them on freely for the love of it. If I play or record any of Paddy Fahy’s compositions, do you think he will even consider knocking on my door with a bill? I play a lot of Junior Crehan tunes: the last time I was with Junior I was asked to play the pipes for a bit, I finished off with The Hills of Coore, because it was composed by him and because it was composed in honour of the place we were in. Junior gave me the thumbs up and a big fat wink. This whole thing is about tunes being made and tunes being played, as Junior put it himself : play the tunes. tell the story.
I was playing a tune in a session during the last Willie week, it was a tune I learned from Mick O Brien who in turn had it from fiddle player Conor Tully, it’s a nice tune and Martin Rochford at one point twisted my arm to wrtie it down for him because he wouldn’t leave without it.
Recently I heard it on the radio, recorded by the guy who composed it: Kerry accordeon player John Brosnan. Anyway, we were tipping away at it in the session, up comes this guy, nice tune you played there. I said sure, the Brosnan tune, love that. I am the man he says, great to see it getting around, lovely job lads.
A couple of years ago there was a big issue about certain people/groups changing traditional tunes slightly and then stick copyright on them. People who are into that sort of behaviour and people insisting on their copyrights don’t deserve to have their tunes played.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-03-03 06:39 ]
On 2002-03-01 10:03, StevieJ wrote:
…and P. O’B, Tommy P and Mary B were leading a monster session,
Okay these people sound like Rap artistes or B-boys/girls. Don’t forget KC!
E