Had a heck of a time getting the various species working in this brand new Rogge B set (plumwood). The set came with composites–styrene tongues mounted on black plastic frames. The reed seats are cylindrical to take the composite shoes. But, this morning I finally figured out how to get natural reeds to work in the set–kind of. Still not sure if these drones are made for traditional styled reeds. Had the hardest time getting them to buzz with a steady pitch. The composites are pretty steady. I removed the styrene tongues and replaced them with elderberry. That softened them a bit, but had to scrape the elder pretty thin to get it sounding better than the originals though. Also, the phragmites surprised me! They were pretty steady too, and sounded good. The elder sounded kind of okay as well and had that sweet mellow tone and excellent buzz. I didn’t get around to trying forsythia yet.
The digital recording was done with the EQ set flat, no effects, no funny stuff. I had two mics set up, one on each side. A large Mojave MA-200 (large diaphragm) and a small Octava MC012-10 condenser mic. Mics were set at about 12" from drones.
The species are in this order, and played w/o interruption.
Composites (elder tongues on plastic frames)
Cane (arundo donax)
Elderberry (sambucus nigra)
Wild Sunflower
Phragmites
What do you think of phragmites? I may have gotten a little to close to the mics with it. It sounds louder and fuller anyway. But, that could be just the way it is too, not sure. I never changed the settings. I’m leaving the phragmites reeds in the set because it’s the only natural guills I tried that I can play the chanter with and have the drones remain steady.
Hi Lorenzo,
I quite like the sound of the Elder composites (1) followed closely by 3.
They sound very similar and have that certain “warmth” about them .
Keep up the good work
Mike Delta
Yes Mike, they do sound kind of warm and fuzzy! I was surprised how mellow the elder on composite was. I think I’ll stick to elder twigs and phragmites for a while. Here’s a photo of the reeds I recorded today…same order as on SoundCloud…
I personally liked the sound of the elder the best with the cane a close second although the cane sounded more stable. In use I would probably go for the cane if that is true although the elder did have a little extra something!
My impression of cane is the same as before, a couple months ago, when I posted the first recording of cane side-by-side with forsythia/Japanese knotweed. It sounds round and almost metallic (in more than one maker’s pipes too), perhaps because it’s harder and denser than any of the rest.
In person, the phragmites sounds just as rich and powerful as the recording. I’m finding that I prefer it for a number of reasons…esp it’s stability or lack of pitch bending. I listened to the samples on the SoundCloud app over my iPhone and didn’t think there was any difference in volume. With headphones over the laptop it did strike me as louder though, or something. I was very careful to keep everything the same for a true comparison…even pointing the puck straight up every time I changed reed types. So, I think it’s safe to say it’s a little bit louder and more powerful. Drone reeds, from any source, can be made to sound several different ways–loud, soft, dull, bright…but…the best buzz is natural as in elder wins that battle! Although, the way the tongue is sliced can influence the buzz.
I’ve been trying to understand phragmites now for a coupla months. I reeded up 4 different sets…blind…mailing various reeds out to pipers w/o a clue if they’d actually work. One piper, who didn’t try the phragmites reeds till after trying other varieties, fell in love with the material. He then discovered a patch across the street from where he lives on the east coast. I haven’t heard from him since!!!
In doing research on phragmites, I learned from certain websites dedicated to reproducing Indian artifacts, that phragmites is softer than cane. That was demonstrated by drilling holes in rocks (bannerstones) both phragmites and cane (aka river cane), adding sand for a cutting agent.
Phragmites can be almost harder than cane on the outer bark. It’s almost like a hardener varnish has been applied to the surface. Even a new sharp razor blade has a hard time penetrating it. But apparently, what lies under the outer skin is softer than cane. Phragmites stems are hardest down low…within the first 2-3 joints. Above that, it typically gets too soft and you can even pinch it to the point of collapsing the entire stem. There’s everything in between too.
So, what gives it the rich tone? That’s what I’d like to know. It doesn’t give off any of the round metallic tones you hear from cane.
Yep…sonorous, cavernous, or like one piper put it…robust.
EDIT NOTE: I should add that one of the reasons the sound samples are wavering a bit is because this set of pipes I bought came with a very small bag (and bellows) which I’m not use to. So, it’s the irregular breathing problem too that adds to certain reeds lacking stability. But, when you hear the composites and phragmites being somewhat stable, even with this small bag and bellows, I think it means that with an even better air supply they’ll be good.
I, too, liked the sonorous quality of phragmites. I was a bit concerned, however, that some of the depth of sound might have been the bass drone overpowering the higher drones. Have you listened to the drones individually, to be sure the reeds are working equally well in all three?
Lorenzo, I’d like to express my admiration for the care you put into composing your photographs. Nice work.
Thanks. Did I mention this puck is hollow? So lots of resonating qualities going on with the bass. What’s cool about the SoundCloud wave is you can click on any particular set of reeds, then back on another, and get an instantaneous comparison. I think the baritone reed stands out most within the cane reeds. The phragmites…it’s harder to separate the baritone from the bass. It takes some concentration, but the more I listen to it the better I can pick it out. I did leave the EQ flat so I could get a realistic value. It would be easy, as you can see, to boost or lower the volume on the bass, baritone, or treble.
What I don’t hear in any of the recorded samples is enough Tennor Drone.
This is the drone I use to Hear, Define and Tune the intervals between it and the Chanter’s notes…
My opinion is lets have less Bass and more Tennor in the mix of our Drones… that does not imply a greatly louder Tennor but one that has sufficient piquance to shine through. A singing Tennor is easier to tune to the Chanter and easier to then tune the other drones to it.
Thanks Geoff. I’ll bet you understand more than most what I’m up against!
I’ve gone back and listened to the clip through different qualities of speakers/headphones. I’m going to go with what I think I’m hearing over the headphones–a set of high quality studio phones which has the entire dynamic range.
Composites–the tenor is the weakest, bari slightly dominates over the bass
Cane–pretty balanced, but tenor dominates slightly, bari the weakest
Elder–best balance of the bunch
Wild Sunflower–sorry I included this. Too much rattle, not enough substance.
Phragmites–bass dominates, bari the weakest
This raises the question: what all contributes to volume of a drone reed–apart from the design and material of the actual drone/stick itself? I’m thinking back on all the sets of pipes I’ve owned, and the Charles Roberts D set stick out as one of the loudest–D of course! Tom K. once told me his own set of Roberts drones “blew the dust off the floor.” That particular set had a fairly wide diameter cane reed…and kind of short as well.
After experimenting with the varieties, I’ve begun to wonder if “width” really is the determining factor–both in diameter of the guill (ID and OD) and width and thickness of the tongue. I’m sure the species makes a lot of difference too…and this would explain why some pipers have a mixture of different species in their drones. At first, the tenor reeds were the hardest to make so that they sounded right/balanced–and still are in some regards. Many were too loud for my taste, so I had to learn to soften them up a bit–at least with some species.
I’m also wondering what effect the bridle has? No bridle? Wire vs. Soft O-Ring types or thread? Another thing I’ve noticed is that tapering the base, and scraping down below the tongue a ways, or leaving the bark on in some species, has an effect on the tension which is built in to the guill’s walls…suggesting the condition of the frame has something to do with the tone and volume.
I’ve concluded that phragmites really is more robust than the rest. I just made several different sets of three and they all exuberate the same deep sonorous tone.
.
