This would probably be more appropriate to the Traditional Music board, but I’m posting it here, since this is where most folks come.
What is the difference between a slide and a single jig? It came up on The Session when I spoke of The Road To Lisdoonvarna as a single jig and some thought it was a slide. I grant I don’t know what a slide is, so might as well clear up the mystery.
This may be right or wrong … But I think of single jigs as in triple meter, counted in 2, with an underlying DAAH-duh DAAH-duh feel. Whereas I think of slides as square meter counted in 4, with underlying triplets - almost a hornpipe feel. The difference is in the performance; single jigs can be played as slides, and vice-versa. I’ll post an example if I get my act together.
Aren’t slides generally in 12/8? That would account for the square-4 phrasing.
Not definitive, maybe even controversial at least in parts, but helpful, I think: http://www.irishtune.info/rhythm/.
controversial… i’ll say. only one single reel in his rhythm distribution?
Flings more closely aligned with jigs than reels? Wow.
So, it seems like you could count a slide as four triplets per measure at a fairly fast clip and be spot on, yes?
If that is the case, I can’t see a slide and a single jig being confused for one another, unless I am missing something.
It’s all in the phrasing. The phrases are typically the length of 4 “triplets”, yes. And a single jig’s phrases are in groups of two “triplets”. However, there is lots of gray area, and what constitutes a musical phrase could be debated.
Functionally, they are identical. You can play a single jig as a slide and vice versa. Personally, I tend to play my slides more like hornpipes, with regards to slurring/articulation, triplets, etc. and I play my single jigs more like double jigs.
I think another factor is the dance. My teacher says that the slide is danced differently than jigs, and that the rhythm and tempo must be right for the dancers. I really should try to make it to the ceili one of these days to see for myself. Anybody else know much about the dance and how it relates to the playing of the tune?
Yes, it’s the phrasing. What works for me is listening to where the tune goes while counting the downbeats or “strong” beats in a phrase. If it’s got 4 sets of 123s in a phrase or motif it’s a slide.* If it feels like 3 sets of 123s there’s a good chance it’s a slip jig. If it’s 2 sets of 1-2 it’s a polka, if it’s 2 sets of 1234 it’s a reel, etc. Alas, flings still evade me; I can count 'em but I still mix them up with reels and barndances.
By the way: for folks who are new to this I feel the need to clarify the standard definition of a triplet: a set of three notes of equal value, each being counted as one beat, is not a triplet. A triplet is three notes in ONE beat. Thanks.
*An example: a lot of people don’t realize that Merrily Kiss the Quaker’s Wife is actually a slide. But it generally is classified as a slide, and if you sing the tune to yourself and count the sets of 3 in the opening phrase … hey presto! It is!
The usual music notation defintion of a triplet is actually “three notes in the time of two of the same time value”, Cathy! But we also tend to refer (not strictly correctly) to groups of three quavers (beamed thus for convenience of reading) with the value of one main beat as “triplets”.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. In the case of a duple or “super triplet,” yes, what you’re saying is the case. But those aren’t the triplets I’m describing; I admit I don’t think of those as very common to the tune types in this discussion. I’m describing single-beat triplets, ala:
(from Dolmetsch Music Theory Online)
Triplets
In music, the term irrational rhythm is usually applied to a rhythm in which an unusual number of beats is superimposed on the predominating tempo. More precisely, if n evenly-spaced beats are played in the time of m beats of the underlying tempo then the rhythm is irrational if neither of n and m is divisible by the other. The use of the term “irrational” in this context is quite different to the mathematical use of the term: indeed, rhythms of this sort are, in the mathematical sense, rational, as they are precisely defined by the ratio of beats played to beats in the underlying tempo.
One example is the triplet, used when in the context of a simple time signature one wants to subdivide a beat into three. > The triplet notation lets you to do this.
In context, with examples:
http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory15.htm
Hope that clears things up.
My understanding of single jigs is that they are either played ta-DA ta-Da ta-DA or DA-ta DA-ta DA-ta, whereas a double jig is played dadada-dadada dadada-dadada. With that phrasing distinction, I don’t see how a single jig could be played as a double jig without changing the character of the tune, which is to say that most reels could be played as hornpipes, but then they would no longer be reels, would they?
Regarding slides, the speed alone would seem to preclude them sounding like single jigs. I would think it would sound more like a fast double jig, no?
This is exactly the answer to the question. If you can find set dancing in your area, try it out–you can definitely feel the difference between a slide and a jig, as well as the feel for a Kerry/Sliabh Luachra polka compared to northern polkas. A lot of folks will describe a slide as a fast jig, but that doesn’t help with the actual phrasing–the lift and pulse in a slide is different than a jig. But it’s difficult to actually describe in words!
Some good examples of albums with slides:
Star Above the Garter
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_Murphy_Clifford_Star.html
Kerry Fiddles
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_OKeeffe_Murphy_Clifford.html
Also, albums by Seamus Begley and Brendan Begley are great!
Perfectly - thanks! 