So many great points about the whole thing. Where to start. I just can’t keep my mouth shut when the conversation gets this interesting.
Dionys, I think you mentioned something about Geoff’s fondness for B/C, asking why that might be, given how common they are today (relatively speaking). This is by NO MEANS a flame; I just have a couple of thoughts on that. First, remember that it’s because of folks like Geoff that B and C are so popular now. Second, there are huge differences (pun intended) between, say, D and B chanters. I think he finds them comfortable to play and to make.
I had a long LONG conversation with Geoff as to pitch and timber when I ordered my B set five years ago. He only uses ebony, as many of you know, for the functional timber parts. He’s made blackwood in the past, and boxwood; he just believes that ebony sounds the best. Likewise, I think he likes the way the B chanter sounds and responds. Sure, a lot of it has to do with how you make the chanter and the reed, but a lot of folks in music (a lot of the really accomplished ones) think that different keys have different “colors” or “flavors,” depending on whether you want to be visual or gustatory about it.
The idea of a “chromatic” instrument with tempered tuning to allow you to play in many different keys is a very recent idea, in terms of Western music. Bach’s “Well-Tempered Clavier” is one of the early works written for such an instrument. Before that, if you wanted to play in F, you’d tune your harpsichord to meantone intervals based on F. Then C would sound weird, so if you wanted to play in C . . . you’d retune.
I’ve heard other makers express affinities for timbers and pitches based on tonal qualities. Hamish Moore, whom many in the smallpipe world regard with esteem similar to Woof, prefers boxwood and the key of C as the best material/key for smallpipes. Go figure!
I think the idea of physicists measuring instruments is fine for documentary purposes but to understand exactly how to make a good instrument the maker has to firstly know what a good instrument is and secondly have an intimate understanding of how to get them to sound the way they want them to sound. Of course there is physics involved in this process initially but it needs to be a part of how the pipemaker thinks, it has to become part of them… this is what I mean by an understanding.
For the pipemaker to be a good player of the complete instrument is paramount also, how is a maker supposed to make good in-tune regulators if they don’t even know how to play them?
This set is an investment on both Geoff and the buyers behalf. The buyer will probably be an enthusiast who has a son or daughter learning and they want a really great set in the child’s hand’s as soon as possible to accelerate their learning, a great set is a true secret to fast progress on an instrument imo.
Hopefully the set winds up in the hands of someone that will be able to play it well, or will strive to do so. Whomever ends up with the set though, may not even play it themselves but it will certainly be in a great pipers hands at some time, maybe in a future generation?
Patrick.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick D’Arcy on 2002-04-29 14:48 ]
I’m an aspiring pipemaking apprentice (would-be, really–an excellent pipemaker lives 5 hours from me, a little too far for frequent visits, though I’ve been trying my best to do what I can), so I’ve followed this discussion with avid interest. I’d like to suggest that one way to start opening the door for the next generation of pipemakers would be for a master maker to write a serious and thorough book on how to make a full set of pipes, illustrated and photographed thoroughly. Being by nature and by necessity and autodidact, the absence of such a book has been the single greatest obstacle I’ve faced in getting an idea of how to form goals for myself, both in terms of manual skill and technical knowledge. Actually, I want to propose to Peter Laban that, as an accomplished piper and photographer, he might be an excellent person to assist in such an endeavor–and I have to think that there are easily enough Irish government funds available to either supplement the pipemaker’s income while he slows down the process enough for documentation or do the same for the photographer, or pay a scribe, or what have you. It would be lovely if there were a program available in university somewhere that would bestow pipemaking knowledge as there are for so many other instruments, but would this not cost a great deal more than a book? I suppose there is the question of how many people would actually buy the yoke, but, again, there must surely be a way to defray the profit motive with cultural subsidy funding. I know that I myself would happily pay $100 or more for such a book. What do you think, Peter?
I have actually done the very thing, took some 500 photographs when Geoff was making Maire ni Ghrada’s set some three years ago, a selection of 25 snaps are in the latest Sean Reid society journal. A book has been considered, Geoff was to write the text, but interest in publishing a book is not very high on the side of the publishers so the project has been sitting on the shelf since.
Have you already cultivated a relationship with a particular publisher for this, or is it a matter of finding one who is amenable to the project? I’m thrilled and not terribly surprised to learn that you’ve already done work on it and since the thing is already underway it seems especially important to find a way to see it through. Do you need to find a publisher who can offer an advance so that Geoff can take time off to write the text? I’m not an agent, but I’m willing to shop it around to American university presses if it would help–or, indeed, do anything to help that I can. My email is joshua_perkins@hotmail.com, if you’d like to contact me and keep talking about this off-list. Cheers.
On 2002-05-04 11:23, lemonsquash wrote:
Sorry–can I ask for contact information for the Sean Reid Society as well? I’m having no luck unearthing it on the web. Thanks.
There’s a website but that’s a secret ;-o]
The US distribution for the second journal is done by Mark Walstrom [nancymark@earthlink.net], he told me he nearly had the hardware for copying the CD Rom/journal sorted, give him another week and it will be running. Otherwise contact the editor, Ken McLeod
Thanks. I do think it might be worth trying to get an American university press interested in the book–Boston University comes to mind first, since Seamus Connolly administers the Gaelic Roots Summer School there and they have a strong Irish Studies department–offhand, though, I’m not sure if they run a press. What about Chicago or New York? There has to be a way…
Hey guys,
since no one had mentioned anything for a while, I thought I would let you know that I got up the nerve the other day and called Geoff on the phone in Ireland (I am in California). I am 24 and have been playing the uilleann pipes for 4 or 5 months but have seen and researched them for a while. I love playing my practice set and can’t get enough of it. Anyway, I talked to Geoff and he graciously put me down on his 13-14 year waiting list. I figure I am young and have time to wait. By the time he gets around to making them, God willing (he will be about 65), I will be about 37 or 38, and hopefully of the calliber of player to do them justice (plus by then I will have saved up enough money).
So I was excited and just thought I would drop a line.
Take care everyone
God bless
Joseph
Someone bit at the 25,000 level. I’m afraid that’s probably out of my range, or even if I bid a little higher that it will definately be out of my range. Plus I’m not honestly sure (in my humble opinion) that any set of pipes is worth that much.
So. I’m going to spend a few hundred to get a nice metal lathe, some aged wood (boxwood, rosewood, blackwood/ebony) and see if I can make myself a nice $25,000 set in the next few years.
It’s amazing. In two weeks I saw two perfect lathes come up for sale, and called only to find out they had been instantly sold (they were the perfect size, make and price). Now it’s been 3+weeks and the only lathes that show up are in the 1.5-7k range. Boo.
Your man put his bid in during the Tommy McCarthy concert, I was there.
It is ofcourse ridiculous beyond words, even if you get a very nice set of pipes for it.
But he said he just bought a new car for 35 K and how long would that last him A point ofcourse, if you have that sort of money knocking about.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-06-25 07:19 ]
I have to agree. If you have the money to burn, there is certainly no other maker I would probably want a set from. Unfortunately I don’t have money to burn.
Plus a 35,000 car will last a very long time if you take care of it. Besides which. A 2500$ car will probably last you just as long if you choose well.
Unfortunately, most or all of the contact links no longer work. I have tried emailing some so that I could purchase the CD ROM(s?) that they put out. Lord knows I could use measurments and whatever kind of educational material I can get my hands on.
Dear Dionys,
Give the yahoo ameture bagpipe makers group a try. Lots of info and very nice people(with few exceptions). If I remember right, Chris Bailey has charted out some nice plans and I think Alan Ginsburg also sells plans. Also the borderpipes society in England supports alot of pipe making info.
'Hope this gives you some leads, but if you’re going to make pipes be prepared for ALOT of frustration. All the best,
Marc
Ginsburg has some nice plans from what I understand, and they’re on my eventual list, but I’d like to get the measurements that the Seán Reid Society has on their CD Roms. David Daye also has some nice bore measurements on his web sites, as well as the tone hole size/distances. The Amateur Bagpipes Group is very helpful, though I don’t remember any UP plans/measurements.
As for frustration, I’m ready. I have tons of patience and I’m ready to learn and make mistakes that I learn from.
If I remember correctly the set was resold not so long ago by the first owner to a lady in Wexford? Does the set get taken out and played at sessions, tionals etc. or is it a home instrument? Just wondering thats all
Reviving this old topic that I came across by accident:
To answer Steampaket’s question, the set is played a great deal, the lady who bought it plays it at Glendalough, outdoors, most days of the summer, has made several CD’s with her friend and sells these CD’s to the tourists visiting this historic site.
The ladies came down to central France last year for the purpose of getting the set serviced, left it with me for a couple of days and all was put back in order prior to recording another CD.
First, remember that it’s because of folks like Geoff that B and C are so popular now. Second, there are huge differences (pun intended) between, say, D and B chanters. I think he finds them comfortable to play and to make.