Bag colours and pipe-makers not replying…PAAAAAAH !! 
How about some technique to discuss?!
How many of you play short rolls on your chanter?
If so, when, where etc…spill the beanz.
Or are you all "trill"ers?
Hiya Boyd,
How are you!
I reckon the D.M.. of Willie Clancy has good info., and examples of how short rolls are used. The first bar of tunes like Sligo Maid/Green Groves of Erin/Crooked Road are an example?
I fell off Ril Beara!
Alan
They are essential. In my opinion, they are the most difficult of all the ornaments or rhythmic variations, whatever you wish to call 'em, to play correctly. I find the the top hand short rolls on A and B especially difficult. Finally, I have got my lower hand F# and G open fingered, chanter off the knee short rolls going. I play them wherever there is a quarter note F# or G and it seems that a roll is needed for emphasis or coloring, and I don’t play them every time they come up in a tune. The F# short roll is lovely when it fits into tunes.
Absolutely agree with Alan. The Willie Clancy book is a real eye-opener as to how and when to drop in a short roll, or any other ornament as far as that goes.
Sorry, I don’t find a problem doing short rolls with the upper hand in the first octave - just a matter of practice, but short rolls on A and G in the upper octave are still a struggle for me. Actually, my biggest bugbear is triplets with the upper hand. But as for where to use short rolls, anywhere you can fit one in 
djm
The transcriptions of Willie’s piping in the Pat Mitchell book are great tutors on how to articulate a tune so that it has some bite.
Just try working in all those cuts as notated and you’ll soon see what I mean. If you’re used to just gumming your way through a tune, this will cure you of the habit.
Hi Folks,
would the Willie Clancy book be “The Dance Music of Willie Clancy” by Pat Mitchell? or is there another one.
Thanks, Mac
The Pat Mitchell one is the one!
Alan
Now I understand, 
Thanks Alan
Maybe I’m just lazy, but I tend not to use short rolls for the lower hand…I just put in trills.
Does ANYONE short roll the E in either octave?
Boyd
Boyd,
I short roll on E and e. It sounds more like a tap though. I trill too. Didn’t trill used to be a bird seed that reputedly had dope plant seeds in it? 
Alan
lol yes alan , but don’t fool yourself , that was the same hemp , I did not inhale in the midwest , as it has none of the things that make it usefull , other than rope .
lol ,
tok . , cough , lol
lol
tok . .
Alan
When you roll your E [or e] do you cut it with the right index or the left ring finger?
And do you strike the two right hand fingers or just one.
[There’s a guy up here who always rolls it open… most I’ve met are closed men]
Boyd
btw:
This is the sort of post that attracts the smart-arse comment like
“isn’t it joints that you roll… e’s you just swallow” :roll:
Boyd,
I usually use both fingers on e and cut with my LH ring finger. Wouldn’t using the right index really become a “sort of” GEG triplet? In fact, thinking about it, it should cause your wee finger to follow your RH ring finger anyway?
Alan
Alan, using the G to cut the E is a viable alternative to using A. If you can actually hear the note you’re cutting with, you’re not playing the cut fast enough. In other words, it is playing the cut too slowly that would turn the cut into an EGE triplet.
I find differences in which note you use to cut are subtle, but can be used to great effect depending on the type of tune and type of effect you are after. e.g. cutting the E with the G gives a softer sound to the cut, which may be very appropriate in a soft tune, or in the first phrase of a part, whereas cutting the E with the A is a much more abrupt sound, and would be more appropriate where you want the sound of the cut to really stand out like in the last phrase of a part. - IMHO of course.
djm
Robbie Hannan says you should always cut E with G… he thinks the A cut is too harsh on a flat set.
[he also insists that G rolls should be cut with B, to add tone and character]
Boyd
I also do e short roles(both octaves), most often using the g as the cut note, but not always.
Boyd,
You know what pitch I play don’t you
If I stuck to what pipers say you should always do, I wouldn’t do half of what I do do (my dad was an english teacher teehee!).
I presume when you talk of cutting e with a g, you’re using just the one finger to sound the note? I was shown aca and bcb tplts off the knee, thus producing a sort of Crann (if decorating the bell is always called a crann?), g rolls cut with c# etc., There’s more way to skin a cat as they say. Find the easiest one and practice the others in secrecy!
Alan
I use the crans described in the Willie Clancy book almost exclusively, GFG, GFGA, AGFG, etc. They’re a great way to build some strength and coordination into your bottom hand articulation, especially if you develop good, clean GFE and EFG staccato triplets and try to detach 2nd octave G, F, and E in a non-legato manner. I like the sound of the BCB or ACA crans, too, but seldom use them mostly because my bottom hand is much stronger than my top hand (I’m right handed). I still use a lot of back d, C, B, and A cuts and try to keep the melodies crisp and well-defined.
I tend to cut G, F#, and E(1st octave) with the A, and use the a, g, or f# to cut the e (2nd octave). Using the high a to cut my second octave e or f# tends to lose the second octave if I’m not very careful or if the reed is slightly too open. It sounds cool, though, so the extra practice is worth it, especially for the attack it gives.
[/quote]Robbie Hannan says you should always cut E with G… he thinks the A cut is too harsh on a flat set
That’s what a great player says.
Its interesting that he’s so definite about it.
I would agree with those posters who vary what they do for individual situations…but only because that’s what I do too. If the A cut on E/e sounds too harsh, try the G or whatever.
Back to SHORT ROLLS… I use them a lot on the whistle, but not so much on the pipes. I tend to favour upper hand triplets, but short rolls have given me a nice new variation to throw in… I still haven’t found many places to use a short roll on the lower hand..maybe the odd F…
Alan…can you give me a few tunes where you short roll the E/e?
[Love to “Es”, by the way]
Boyd
Dya think maybe I need help with my technique for making short posts?!!
I can’t be bothered to edit it… so regard my dalliance with the Quote button as tonal and interesting
B