I hate to change the subject from hardware to technique [ 
] but…
I’m reliably informed that Ennis once or twice rolled eg F# using the back d as the first part of the roll, as a way of getting a different tonality/bite in the tune. I think his usual F# roll was more conventional. This was a very unusual one-off sorta thing. I suspect the chanter would come off the knee halfway through the roll.
It’s a strange one, but maybe there are those of you out there who do it all the time?
Boyd
That’s the bottom D he used, and all over the place too. Back D as a grace would most likely give you a unique squeak I’d think. Does your man specify a recording where Ennis did this?
I’d be interested in hearing where your source says this is happening too.
Ennis seems to me to have exclusively used the back D in that sort of ornamentation context only to roll the C natural and to cut the c natural.
He has a funny way of pacing the F roll in places such as in his playing of The Ewe Reel. I had assumed there was some unconventional fingering going on there, that is untill I slowed it down and had a listen, he was just playing it as he did a lot of things… technically normaly but oddly and Ennis-ly.
Regards,
Harry.
Harry, that was my thinking too, not for this particular effect, but in general. When slowing Ennis down, the significant difference seems to me to be in his timing. I was trying to get his version of The Dublin Reel down, but wasn’t sure what he was doing. His F# rolls there sound more like a buzz, but it is just that he has compressed the timing all into the last bit.
Do you know what the status is of Pat Mitchell’s opus on Ennis? It seems we are well over a year since it was first supposed to be released.
Thx,
djm
I’ll go back and clarify…my brain could have been fuddled I spose!
Still, nice to have a piping technique topic on the forum.
Boyd
Sometimes Ennis would do a F# with the little finger up. The first/smaller E hole was covered so when he rolled with this fingering, he got an unusual sound because when he tapped the note for the second cut of the roll it sounded Eb/ghost D.
It gave it an unusual tone. Liam O’Flynn does it a bit too.
Tommy
Wise men in the west have now spoken to me and said that Mr Ennis did the back d thing on F# rolls in The Dublin Reel [Forty Years of Irish Piping] and also in another reel The Boys of the Lough.
The cut is with the back d, the flap or strike is with the two F# fingers [and the chanter off the knee for the flap phase of the roll].
Boyd
That makes sense, T. The ‘tap’ of the F roll is fairly indistinct when slowed down, it’s definately not a D and almost certainly is some kind of off-the-knee E-ish thing.
The second ‘tap’ (or cut as you call it) is a much more fleeting note that the first cut (ie. the A that cuts the F for the roll is longer than the E-ish note that “taps” to end the roll).
This might go some way to explaining how it sounds… and how to do it. The grace notes involved in rolling are rarely of equal length in my experience. It sounds too ‘lazy’ and drawn out if they are played at equal length. I often find when teaching that getting students to really ‘flick’ out that lower note of the roll is quite a challenge for them.
BTW you can find a famous rendition of The Dublin Reel with all this on display on track 20 of S. Ennis The Return from Fingal CD.
Regards,
Harry.
Just went through that track of The Dublin Reel on '40 Years…" at 1/4 speed (and slower in places) just to be sure and I’m not detecting those back D cuts, Boyd. He’s just cutting the rolls with an A. Don’t know where The Boys of the Lough is that you mention?
The slow down programs are great for checking things like this and transcribing tunes in detail. They have dispelled a few assumtions that I had made.
Regards,
Harry.
private message for you, Harry
The Boys of the Lough is on Feidlihm Tonn Ri’s Castle.
Apparently Ennis was once challenged by a dancer on the subject of rhythm, that he was not danceable to, especially on hornpipes. Ennis replied that this was done on purpose, as he didn’t like people taping their feet along to his piping!
Do Chiff and Fipple pipers play for the head or the feet?
For the money! 
djm
…I play for small pieces of moldy cheese…NARF,pit ZOIT!!
Paddy Moloney seemed to do a very strange technique. It seemed to be a mixture of a roll, and popping 
. See ‘Water from the Well (Galician Set)’ DVD, he lifted the chanter of the leg, lent into the bag and moved the chanter in a sort of oval movment (bending the head of the bag in the process). It made the pipes make a kind of meow sound. What’s more he’s the only piper I’ve seen use that technique.
Does this technique have a name? Or is it piper invented?
L42B 
Yes, it is known as “The Duck’s Revenge”.
Ok so how does one achieve this “Ducks Revenge”
L42B
To play the bottom D, you have to lift the chanter clear of the leg - not a lot, maybe an inch. However, if you decrease this distance, and roll the edge of the chanter off the leg you can make some odd bawling noises with the bottom D. Sounds like that was what Paddy was doing, from your description. A mic can amplify the effect somewhat.
Felix Doran used to make all sorts of farmyard animal noises with his chanter to entertain the kids. You won’t find these techniques in any of the NPU videos.
djm
L42B…Ducks Revenge 
I think DJM is having ye on!!!
What ye appear to be describing is just a bit o showmanship for the video..
a bit like some o the stuff that is posted here :roll:
ye can lift the chanter off the knee when doing the tap on the roll for added depth, putting the chanter back on the knee when finishing the roll.
The meow sound ye refer to is probably a “slur” that is,… sliding up to a note…Are ye getting lessons?
Slan Go Foill
Uilliam
Uilliam I havn’t gotten the pipes yet (if the cheaque gets to Ian by Tuesday) they should arrive next week. Because I’m more then likely the only Uilleann Piper in the district lessons will be few and fare between. I had my first lesson with Mikie Smyth while I was in Dublin (which was excellent). I also got the book and tutor video from NPU after the lesson. The lesson certainly put me on the ‘straight and narrow’. Mikie clarified a lot of things for me about the UP’s (I forgot to ask about this though).
L42B