Does anyone know where i cuold find some realy good, traditional Irish Sheet music? ![]()
Also:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/findtune.html
You need to know the name of the tune you want, but once you do, it will return it in a variety of formats and keys.
Redwolf
And donāt forget
Hey, guys, Traditional Irish Sheet Music is an oxymoron! Irish music is to be learned by ear! Period!
(Written as I search OāNeillās for a few new tunes to learn.) ![]()
Have to agree with BB, sheet music is the devil. I strongly recommend avoiding it at all costs.
Here we go again.
Shh! If I donāt get my quota of souls, theyāll send me back Down Below, and Iāll lose my luxury yacht, racing cars, and hot swimsuit models.
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Hereās a couple more:
http://www.uptospeed.net/hoi/
http://www.darsie.net/tuneweb/
This topic just came up (again) over at āthe sessionā.
Thereās nothing wrong with sheet music. Itās a helpful tool, nothing more, nothing less.
What are the negative consequences of sheet music, if read with an informed ear in the genre?? Do the diddly fairies crawl back into their glades, never to be seen again? Does the white witch suck the inspiration from your soul? Does the devil come to claim his due at the end of yer life??? Or do ya just learn some more tunes that you might not have been exposed to otherwise?
Has anybody else eve learned a tune passably from sheet music? It isnt hard. Itās pretty easy, and not to be feared.
Settle down, my friend! Itās just a joke (translated: shameless troll). Notice what I wrote at the end of my previous post:
The truth is, Iām with Wormy on this one.
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Aww, okay. Talamirr is earnest and a beginner. So here goes:
FIRST, get some CDs of trad music. Find a song that you REALLY want to learn. Try coppinā it off the record. Use the Slowdowner or other software etc. if you want because dangit, they play so fast! At some point, itās okay to take a look at the sheets to it, but do try the other way first.
The most legitimate way I can understand Murphās admonition is to re-state it this way: going through pages and pages of tunes without understanding the MANY ways that the printed notes are only APPROXIMATIONS of what you hear, and not knowing it because you havenāt listened to trad music will provide for a very slow and inefficient way of learning the style. I have seen a lot of sheets by different editors of the same tunes. Itās amazing how many ways things are notated but that still arenāt quite indicative of what the players actually do.
Also, the vast amount of tunes at your disposal in tunebooks diminishes the importance of learning them one at a time. Many of us who read are guilty of this because we are in a hurry to learn a lot. Because everyone is different, I canāt bring myself to say some universal thing but there is a lot to be said for working one tune at a time and getting it right before moving on to another. You run the risk of being someone who can only play from the music, even if you are pretty good at imitating the style. This will fail you in real-time situations with other musicians. I think that Murph wants you to learn the old-fashioned way, which will possibly make you rock-solid at playing the tunes on demand and knowing them in your soul.
If you are going to use sheets, buy the Grey Larsen Guide to TinWhistle and Flute tutor first. Spend the money. Do the exercises. Look at his way of using notation. Then buy the sheets.
Most tunebooks are crap, mostly because of the way they try to represent Irish ornamentation. THe best are Brendan Breathnachās Ceol na Rince volumes 1 through whatever. They are as close to accurate playing as you will ever get but you will only understand them if you have done your homework first because he presents you with alternate versions and some are specific to a certain player. You can get them from Ossian USA, I think, and they are expensive.
I think that, once you understand its conventions and limitations, the ONeillās provides a good overview of many popular tunes. But frankly, I would rather get any given tune off of Henrik Norbeckās abc collection than any other printed source, save the Breathnach. He will tell you in the preliminary info where the tune version came from (Norbeck) and give you a good working version.Learn how to use the abc system, make pdfs and print em out. This is also a good way to slow down by only downloading a tune you are interested in rather than having a million around. Itās free, by the way.
Hope this helps.
And to whom would the reference apply??
Not you, Vermicelli.
Weekenders is refering to me. We go way back and weāve hashed this out many times. Iāve yet to hear anyone blow me away when they learned how to play irish music from dots. When I see one Iāll admit that Iām wrong but until then I know Iām right. Phrasing, rhythm are not accuratly transcribed to sheet music and beyond that many/most notes for tunes are incorrect on places like thesessoin.org and norbecks.
Once youāve got the music down really well then I could see using dots as a tool to give you the first few notes of something or aid to remember but once youāre good enough learning tunes is extremely fast with your ear.
hmmm, I notice wormdiet and cynth disagreeing with me alot lately; perhaps I have some forum opponents.
Yeh, we kid. Hopefully, my longer post makes it clear that I respect Murphās intent.
Only in a friendly academic sense - but neither personally nor on all āon topicā issues ![]()
For reference, Iāve been playing traditional music of some variety for about twenty years now. Started off on highland pipes, migrated to ācasual whistleā fairly early, and just picked up flute in the past several months.
While flute is a new instrument for me, I was once pretty good at GHB. I regularly placed in grade II EUSPBA competitions as both a solo player and band player, if that means anything (I have no idea what a āfleadhā equivalent would be). I also won some scholarships to piping camps run by the āgeezersā of the GHB tradition - the same guys who marched into Rome in 1943 that you see in old newsreels. I post these experiences not to boast (and it isnāt much of one at that) but simply to establish some credentials and context.
I learned much of my solo competition tunes from dots. Or at least, I internalized a melody by hearing it and used dots to iron out glitches or as a form of reference. Itās also very handy for digging a tune out of cold storage. So, in my personal experience, learning from dots works well. WHEN INFORMED by the conventions of the genre!!! That last point cannot be overemphasized.
Thereās a Boehm classical player who sometimes goes to our slow sessions. Very nice guy, competent flautist. He can read notes on new tunes instantaneously, I canāt keep up at all. But I was playing tunes in a ārealā session within a month of receiving my new flute because I have a pretty solid understanding of the genre. The Boehm guy, however, has yet to learn how to internalize tunes with āswingā built in. SO he remains a spectator.
Serious question: how is using sheet music, judiciously, harmful?
I think there is a distinction is between ālearningā and āusing.ā I get the impression Talamirr is a learner. I stated my reasons before. Hey, I am halfway here, having been a musician for most of my life, with music degree, performance experiences, etc. etc. But I understand where Murph is coming from, even though I kid, on this particular style of music making.
BAM! You just said in 10 words what I couldnāt say in however many I used! ![]()
That being said, I often learn the ārough draftā of the tune from the dots, but when it comes time to perform or to play at a session, the dots stay at home. I will not (and cannot) perform a tune that I donāt have memorized well enough to play without a visual reference. If such a tune comes up, I lay out.
Add to this, different regular sessions have different ways of playing the same tunes, and combine them in different sets. Besides, how could you know who performs the definitive version of any tune?