Hello,
New here but Im seeking information on session music. I play a g/d anglo concertina and want to sit in on a irish sessions group a few towns away. I sent my “d” scale to one of the guys and he claims its not in tune with his “d” whistle. Can anyone offer advise?
D Scale:
http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/concertinascale.mp3
Old recording in D when I first started playing with A smallpipe:
http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/1drunkenpiper.mp3
Yes, going by your “D Scale” recording (actually G Mixolydian) … Your concertina is pretty sharp overall to A440, equal temperament. Here are the deviations in cents:
G: +3/+4
A: 0/-2
B: +3/+2
c#: +6/+7
d: +7/+6
e: +13/+10
f#: +8/+7
g: +8/+7
You can see that the intonation is not consistent from note to note, or even on the same note with different bellows pressure. I’d say a difference of 2 or 3 cents might be considered close enough, but some of yours are pretty far off.
Whether this is a problem depends entirely on your session and session mates. Some players are more tolerant of wonky tuning than others, especially in a larger group. Or if you’re playing with other wet-tuned boxes. Some sessions tend to tune slightly high, which would mitigate the sharpness of your instrument. If the other players favor Just Intonation, your extra-sharp f# and B may be pretty rankling.
You could certainly have your reeds retuned by a competent concertina technician, if the value of your instrument justifies it. In any case, a G/D box will limit your ability to play ITM in the “modern” style across the rows, instead of on the rows in melodeon fashion, if that’s your interest.
Thank You,
Actually there are no other box players just some fiddlers whistles and Bodhrans.
Now I call the top row closest to me the D row followed in the center by the G row, is that correct and the third row (that I cannot play at all) Im not sure what its called. Is this correct?
Also I do play along the rows vrs across the rows.
I normally play with our Ceilidh with A smallpipes, Bodhran Fiddle and whistles using the first row (D row??).
If you checked the tuning of any out-of-the-box harmonica against A440 you’d find it just as sharp as, or even sharper, than your scale. I have never come across a harmonica that’s tuned even as low as A441. In fact I tune all my harmonicas to A442-443 as a matter of course. For reasons that have oft been essayed (seldom convincingly), this tuning helps free-reed instruments to sound nice and bright against others without sounding sharp. Your tuning is generally within spec for a free-reed instrument I’d say though with some slight inconsistencies (that A and E) that probably wouldn’t stress anyone out too much in an average session. Here’s a golden rule: don’t check tuning against a whistle, or ever let a whistle player tell you that you’re out of tune. I can’t think of a worse reference instrument unless it’s an exceptionally wet-tuned piano accordion playing French music. Whistles are either out of tune when purchased or played out of tune (or, to be fair, played inconsistently) by the player for all sorts of reasons. Set your tuner to A442 and play into it with normal playing pressure. If it’s anywhere near to that you’re fine. Trust me, I play the harmonica. 
A disclaimer here: Mr Guru is an honourable man and I’m assuming that his assessment of your tuning is spot on! 
I’m a scoundrel, actually. But I’m reasonably sure the Shaku software tuner is accurate. 
Relative to A440, A442 is around 8 cents high, A443 around 12 cents high.
Again, I think individual tolerances are difficult to predict. Personally, perfect intonation is low on my own list of priorities when playing sessions. You’re playing with a mix of ET and JI instruments, maybe wet-tuned boxes, high harmonicas, people with different intonation maps in their heads. As with many folk musics, a degree of dissonance can be part of the characteristic flavor. It’s the lift and nyah that matter most. I’ve never played an exciting session set that drew, “Wow, great intonation!” as the main compliment.
But I do know some players who wince if you’re off by a few cents. Around them, I enjoy playing tunes in parallel 2nds just to watch them squirm. And torturing people who have perfect pitch is always fun.
IMO, there’s no good reason for a concertina to be that far off, and irregularly so. Last I checked, my Wheatstone Aeola is mostly spot-on, and within 2-3 cents nearly everywhere. Consistent bellows pressure is not a problem. Wonky tuning is just that. As Steve says, in a given session that may be OK all in all. But if the whistle player in this case hears the tina tuning as a problem, then it’s obviously a problem for him.
As for whistles … There’s no reason not to hold them and their players to the same standards of intonation as anything else. Done right, any good whistle should be able to be played consistently within +/- 5 cents of its designed tuning. Some whistles, Burkes and Goldies for example, are notably spot-on for ET with minimal breath gymnastics. But I would say that in practice, a whistle intonation range within +/- 10 cents will raise few eyebrows. In any case, whether a given whistler’s intonation is a reasonable reference standard depends entirely on the player and instrument.
Agree with all that. But just supposing that the whistle man’s whistle is ever so slightly flat relative to A440 and your concertina (or harmonica) is ever so slightly sharp. On their own, or with a guitar tuned to A440, you probably wouldn’t pick anything up. But when they’re played together they are slightly further apart than that tolerable 10 or 12 cents, and someone won’t be happy. Been there, done it, got the tee-shirt! 
Get your whistle man to push in his chiff…or is it fipple…or whatever you call that plastic bit at the top…or tell him to shove it a bit further into his gob. Don’t be bullied! 
God, how I love to exhibit prejudice!
Yep, I agree with all that, too. And it’s called a whistle tuning thingy. Now you know. On the other hand, telling the guy to shove his whistle somewhere might not be the best approach … 
Ah, how we harmonica players envy people who can tune their axes on the fly. I can tune up a harmonica in half an hour, but by then the set’s well and truly over and the other guys are either drunk or investigating exotic vegetable substances in the courtyard. When they come back it’s Ashokan Farewell or some similar dirge, and no-one is actually playing the tune as such in any case. Country life the Cornish way!