Dazed and Confused

Whistle
1

I’m rather new to the whistle and to this forum, so hello!

I’ve played flute and recorder on and off for decades, and only recently discovered the Irish whistle, which I have come to really enjoy. I’ve bought Clarkes, Waltons, and and Feadogs and all seem to suffer the same problems.

1.) Not one of them is in tune with the key stated. Some are off just enough to be horrifically unusable. One C is sharper than a C# for example.
2.) When adjusting by moving the fipple in or out, I can get some of them close, but only for a short segment of the scale. One fipple is now so loose I need to bugger it in place with electrical tape.

I’ve read a couple of posts that discuss adjusting them by moving the fipple; others that discuss how to tweak the holes to get a decent scale. All good information. But some of these mods are just not for me. Not going to do it. Probably because I am a stubborn old phart, but still. When I buy an instrument, even a cheap one, it should work without my conducting a science project.

Almost everything I play along with is in concert pitch making these otherwise nice whistles completely worthless. I wish I had known about Freeman tweaked whistles for example, but I digress. I’m solving the problem by working with a custom whistle maker for a set that is in tune or tune-able and while this is more costly than a commercially available whistle, I will have what I need when it’s said and done.

How on this planet do you folks deal with this as I am certain I’m not the only one who has come across this. All of my whistles play nicely and have a decent sound but can only be used as solo instruments which does not meet my needs.

What am I missing? :boggle:

2

Hi there, and welcome!

Tuning can be variable. I started with a Feadog and also had a Generation. Both had tuning issues but we’re okay enough to play along with recordings. I have a Shaw D which has horrible tuning on C natural, but that is by design I think. Try different fingerings for C natural and use the one that is the nearest. Half holing might be the best for some whistles.

I now play Dixons mostly, which are tuneable. This is helpful when playing with the band at church or when recording. They are not too expensive and they sound good.

Wayne

3

The best way I can put it is that is fairly similar to singing. You wouldn’t go and say singer is unusable would you? However, you could say a singer is signing out tune and needs more practice.

Invariably you will discover the only real reliable way to get in “tune” is to use your ears the same way a singer would. You can use a tuner to see if a whistle is so horribly out of tune that it can’t be blown into tune with proper breath control. If that’s the case, yeah its solo piece of trash. I do use a tuner to help me choose which whistle performs better than others. But, really that is all tuner can do.

Most whistles can be blown into tune, but it takes practice and you have nothing to rely on but your ears. Perhaps some dirty looks from others when your out of tune. There are people on here that are far more knowledgeable then I am and will eventually weigh in I am sure. FYI: I think picking some Freeman whistles to start is a great idea.. (Mellow Dog, Dixon Trad, Susato)

Here is a video using a Dixon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikYK0LdZC3I

NOTE: Its not that PJ found the perfect Dixon or whistle. His ear is trained kind of like that of singer. He applies just enough breath to get into tune with the guitar.. That the only magic I know of behind the art of whistling…

4

I completely sympathize, Tater. I stopped playing for a couple of decades because I got tired of all the dirty looks I was getting! Should have figured it out sooner, but I’m now back, and very happy with the tuning of the whistles I have.

The simple, inexpensive whistles are rarely in tune, although by adjusting the head, you can get them approximately in tune. Maybe make sure the higher-volume second register is well-adjusted, even if that means sacrificing a little in the lower register. C/C# are hard to get accurate; try one of the forked finger options for the C-natural.

The RTTA tuner is an app you can get for iPhone (and I presume android), that helps you tune because it captures your intonation WHILE PLAYING, as opposed to playing a single note.

That said, just buy a Freeman tweaked. They are not expensive, sound very sweet, and are pretty accurate, cheapest alternative to one of the nice, custom whistles.

If you want to go up a notch, in volume, quality and price, I’ve heard good things about the Syn line.

5

There are some things to consider.

  1. When you pay $10-$15 for a whistle, can you really expect it to be perfectly in tune? Some are, some aren’t. Just keep trying them and buying them till you get one that works for you.
  2. You can get most whistles into tune if you are prepared to adjust the fipple, adjust the bore (bits of wax, and so on), tape holes.
  3. A whistle can be blown into tune. But this comes with practice. Learn to play the whistle. By that, I mean, learn to play the whistle. It is not a flute or a recorder. It is a whistle and has its own techniques.
  4. If whistles didn’t play in tune, the likes of Mary Bergin, Seán Potts, Micho Russell, myself, and countless others, wouldn’t have played tin whistle.
  5. It could be worse. Ask a piper!
  6. Welcome to the world of ITM. It ain’t as easy as you imagine. Keep at it.

:slight_smile:

6

The usual reply to this , beginners, complaint is that the whistle is not a push button instrument. You have to work at playing in tune, just like a fiddle player has to mind where he/she puts their fingers.

Whistles may also use a tuning system not quite equal tempered.

The tubes on Generation, Oak and Feadóg whistles are pretty consistent, you’ll have to move the head, which is put on in a random position during fabrication, to find the ‘sweet’ spot.

The pitch of the ‘c natural’ is largely up to the player, the fingering and breath used, complaining about a whistle being out of tune on that note is futile.

There are few soundscapes as disconcerting in ‘regular’ music as a group of eight year old playing ‘Twinkle twinkle’ on the recorder. It gets better though when they stick with it. When starting the whistle, accept you’re (back) at that level.

Make the effort, work at it.

7

I would agree with those above who say whistles must be blown into tune, and not just cheap ones. I often see/hear people playing expensive whistles way out of tune. Money can’t buy intonation on wind instruments. With the exception of taping the “c” hole on a Dixon Eb I haven’t tried a cheaper whistle that couldn’t be played in tune relatively easily (cheaper low whistles can have serious tuning issues though).

If you’ve just recently started playing whistle I’m afraid the issue is not with whistle itself, you just need to work away at it and as your control improves the whistle will also improve till it has good intonation. It requires the human element, blowing is where a great deal of the skill is on an otherwise relatively uncomplicated instrument. If you’ve tried multiple whistles then the tuning problem is definitely not with the whistles. Stick in and they’ll be fine. If you know an accomplished player who’ll give them a go you’ll find them to be pretty much in tune.

8

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. I agree to a large extent with most all comments.

I do realize that it is “me” and not the instrument to some extent. I am indeed a beginner on the whistle. Even as a beginner, I have found that how I blow will indeed change the pitch of a given note and this alone makes trying to adjust a whistle to play in key a nightmare, as when I am trying to tune one, I am usually not blowing the notes “naturally” and when I get started on a tune it might still be flat or sharp. :tantrum: Very frustrating for a beginner.

The RTTA tuner app may help. Thank you for the tip.

9

One could say that this is an unrealistic expectation. If you buy a cheap sax, or Boehm flute, or what have you, the very low-cost Made In China ones, they’re not going to “work” either. An instrument repair tech I know calls them ISOs (Instrument-Shaped Objects).

When I (and many of us) first started playing whistle the only D that was available was the Generation. They varied from whistle to whistle due to practically nonexistent Quality Control (the Good and the Bad all went out the factory door regardless). It was up to the player to hunt for a good one. The good ones were very good indeed.

Yet, even the best ones often had a slightly flat 2nd octave, and some might have a scale that was off a hair. I’m talking a few cents, well within the ability of a player with a good ear to blow the whistle into tune. Many people (myself included) would do simple modification to bring a nearly perfect whistle to perfection: pack the dead space in the head under the windway with some substance to raise the 2nd octave a bit, and carve one or more of the holes to make the scale perfect (needle straight up the entire gamut).

You’re re-inventing the wheel somewhat, because this has already been addressed by a number of makers, whose whistles are commercially available.

Michael Burke, for example, makes whistles in every chromatic key, and I’ve been to a number of recording sessions where a professional “reed man” or “flute guy” shows up with a roll containing gleaming Burkes in every key. These whistles are quite in tune, have quite a range of tuning due to the long barrel if you need a pitch outside of 440, have buttery-smooth voicing over the gamut, have a pure clean tone, a full low range, and so forth. Orchestral/Legit players usually seem to prefer Burkes for all of these reasons.

Many professionals prefer Colin Goldie whistles and likewise these can be made in every key and have flawless tuning.

I’ve also seen professionals with a roll of Sindt whistles in many keys, though not all of the chromatic keys. (Sindts don’t go as low as Burkes and Goldies.)

The top professionals, the guys making albums and soundtracks and touring, find their needs met with the whistles mentioned above.

I perhaps should mention that what I prize are whistles which are perfectly in tune “over the break”, for example you can play B C d e on an even breath and the needle points straight up the whole time. Anyone can play G-g octaves and make them in tune with breath control on practically any whistle, but if a whistle has a flat 2nd octave going d-e will reveal it. It’s very tricky, evidently, for makers to achieve this, because oftentimes even when the octaves are spot-on the bellnote and its octave are not (I have no idea why). Many is the whistle which is in tune everywhere, but Bottom D is flat or sharp and/or Middle D is flat or sharp. Many makers such as Burke, Goldie, and Reyburn have figured out how to do it. Jerry Freeman has too, with his modified whistles, which have quite perfect tuning.

10

For sure, it’s amazed me a couple times when I’ve been at a recording session or live gig where a professional “reed man” has played a perfectly in-tune solo on a cheap whistle, and afterwards when we chat and I try the whistle I find its tuning pretty bad. I myself would have fixed the tuning with tape or carving or whatever it took. But the professional with Perfect Pitch can blow practically anything into tune.