Yes, much fun. Thanks for all this.
Much appreciated.
Thanks all for the history lesson, always interesting. But alas the pocket book says to forget it!
MarkB
Some questions, if those of you who have some info
will be so kind:
I have a Byrne keyless Rudall medium holed flute in blackwood.
It isn’t terribly loud (or soft). Is this flute likely to sound something
like the Byrne? About that volume? Don’t know if anybody knows. Sorry to ask iimpossible questions. I’ve read here that Bryan’s flutes are
the most faithful to the old Rudalls acoustically. Really like
Bryan’s flute.
I’ve never bid for an e bay flute. What’s the strategy?
I suppose there may be a rush at the end?
So you go over the reserve, as I suppose that gets
surpassed? PM me, please, if you have advice, or
answer here. I’m tempted to try for this, especially
as I trust the seller.
I see that the flute sold for $1,600. Two zero rated bidders were bidding against each other in the last minute. Jim, did you win the bid?
Yes, I won it. I really didn’t expect to. I was bidding and each time
somebody outbid me, and I thought, well, just a little more,
it’s fun and of course I won’t win. Then I did.
I’m trying to figure out the shipping charge.
Dave, I’ll do the money order if you want,
but it it’s OK, can I send you a check?
Will you PM me, if possible and tell me what to do?
I can send you my address here at Brown.
Hi
Rudall & Rose did make flutes now and then for other companys, I looked at a flute from an old dealer about 12 years ago, it was a patent–head Rudall,
the address said Rudall & Rose, 15 Pizza, Covent garden, London, and under
that was written " for Sheppard & co, Buffalo, I did’nt buy the flute , it needed a lot of repair, a dealer from westchester county bought it,
Also i have a nine key cocuswood B foot flute which is marked " Binckes & Co, Old Kent Rd, London, every time i looked at that flute it looked just like
some Rudall flutes i had seen , so one evening i emailed Robert Bigio and mentioned this to him as i knew that Binckes & Co were just dealers,
Robert emailed me and said “take a look under the C and C# keys and see if there is a mark” Sure enough when i looked under the touches of these keys
the name “Wylde” was engraved on the wood, Of coarse most know that Wylde worked for Rudall & Rose before he went on his own, He also made flutes for " Blackman, London",
So it is well known that some of the well known makers did make flutes for other dealers and flute companys,
hi glinjack, yeah, that’s right - a rudall&rose would almost certainly be stamped. as evidenced by the hundreds today. probably more likely to be stamped if another name were to appear on the flute as well. this would favor the ‘other’ party. the rr name was prestigous and prized (and still is), no? probably worth some money to have their name on a flute, next to your name, that would be sweet. the name itself was royal.
so i tend to doubt they made anonymous unmarked flutes, or flutes marked with only someone else’s name on them, leaving out their rr markings. it just does not seem their style. more likely the style of other makers or apprentices trying to make it on their own. maybe they worked for rr or other firms in some fashion at one time or another. with no stamp simply made anonymous english flutes, maybe clones of rr’s.
i have also seen ‘wylde for rudall and rose’. interesting arrangement.
i wonder what that was about. very nice flute though.
Rama
The mark would have accurately been “Wylde from Rudall & Rose”
You can see that here, the section dealing with Henry Wylde (who lived a long time!):
http://home.earthlink.net/~migoya/id107.htm
dm
I’ve been really enjoying this thread, though I’m ages away from knowing what flute I’d be tempted to buy when I upgrade. Congratulations Jim!
Please, resurrect the thread and tell us what you think when you finally get a chance to hold and play this beauty.
If only we could know what hands and hearts have known these historic instruments. Even if I never own an older flute, I’ll pass my own on and with it some stories. And we always have the tunes themselves, handled and loved by countless others before us.
Jennie
thanks david, must have been alot of detective work to piece together the bio. on wylde, great link, very interesting. i had the opportunity to play a few wyldes, and i loved them all and thus have been intrigued by his flutes.
it was in fact the stamping on micheal tubridy’s own flute that he and i were trying to decipher one afternoon, which was somewhat difficult to read. so i see from your link ‘wylde from rudall & rose’ would be more accurate and befitting.
having owned grinter flutes, i noticed similarities between a grinter flute with a wylde which i had tried while visiting in dublin some time ago. yet i believe apparently grinter modeled his flute from an orig. rr (with all the fancy rings etc.), this maybe affirms that wylde/rr connection.
hey jim, hope you enjoy the flute! seems like a good deal.
you are right about the Wylde flutes, rama
my own favorite Rudall is one that I’m sure (but don’t know for sure) was a Wylde-made instrument.
I’ve yet to play one as good, no matter the maker. And I dont’ say that as idle chat.
Our own board member, Blayne (who is getting quite the good rep in Ireland during his studies…bravo!) has played this flute. He can tell you (if he’s reading) what he thought of it. Let’s just say that he sounded like he was having sex. 
Here is a flute on ebay that has a “W” under the C# Key, I wonder if it is a Wylde also?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7386564205&indexURL=5&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
It also has a double key on the Bb key, you piper grip players would love that!
I just checked in the Dayton Museum they say under “Monro & May” that the “Provenance” is Rudall & Carte?? Does this mean the origin?
Cheers,
Provenance is the history of ownership.
In Mr. Miller’s case, it is the source from which he acquired an item.
That Rudall Carte had it could mean many many things, not the least of which is they had it in their private collection or for analysis for their own constructions. After all, they were always stealing from each other!
Jon C wrote
Here is a flute on ebay that has a “W” under the C# Key, I wonder if it is a Wylde also?
The key work (flat flaps) i hav’nt seen on Wyldes flutes, although R& R used those type of keys in their early work, The engine-turned rings are the type
that Wylde did on many of his flutes, (I have a Wylde with exactly the same type of rings) On some flutes which he made for other companys he put the name “Wylde” engraved on the wood under the C & C# keys, of coarse he could not do this on the key as there was’nt enough space, so the W would be more likely,
On closer looking at that flute it does have a resemblance of Wyldes work,
I would have to have the flute in my hands to clearly verify whether it is or is not the work of Henry Wylde.