http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170735696621
nice one for ITM…
Is it cocuswood? The colour looks very light…
I’d say it’s cocus. And by the looks of things it hasn’t been handled much or the shellac/french polish would be more worn off and the wood be darker. Only fix needed for that one might be a new spring for the C# key, unless it’s the block pinching the key, in which case some light scraping of the key way will do. Some cleaning, new thread for the joints, oiling and a re-pad and it’s good to go! The keys seem to be nickel silver, but the rings could be sterling…?
Looking a bit closer the keys are likely sterling as well…
I dunno. I thought they looked GS to me. I was worried about the fact that you can;t see the embouchure hole. I’ve sent a message through eBay asking for a pic of the embouchure hole, but with no response …
i’m not so worried about the embouchure. the seller clearly notes there are no cracks or splits.
I’d want to see a photo of the slide separated to ensure it’s not frozen.
I don’t think these are GS keys, although the late serial number says it could be.
the indicator of silver keys, i believe, is the foot key set up. The “claw” interlock is usually in sterling. I can’t say i’ve seen it in GS (thought i might be wrong, but i just don’t recall it). Usually the GS keys are overlapping touches on the foot keys.
Nice looking flute.
the late serial number would indicate an improved bore in good shape for modern 440 pitch play.
fyi…i will not be bidding.
You guys seem to be quite good at predicting the final sale price on these flutes. Do you have any estimates on how much this one is likely to go for in the end? I’m seriously considering taking a shot at it. Thanks! Jon
I already took two shots at it just for fun!
“Do you have any estimates on how much this one is likely to go for in the end? I’m seriously considering taking a shot at it. Thanks! Jon”
2400-2600 Sterling
Can’t say ever saw a Rudall that had a shellac finish… This is the color of true Cocuswood, unless it is acid stained. It will darken slightly over time. The majority of antique flutes were not made from Cocus, but another type of cheaper ebony, that would get quite dark.
Looks like it will bea great flute for someone, probably well for about $3,500-$4,000 is my guess.
I didn’t know any of these had only three sections.
You might want to count again, Jim (hint: look for the rings).
I’m talking from experience with cheaper cocus flutes so you may be right. Since Hammy Hamilton re-french polished the head on the ornate Rudall #859 a few threads down I figured it occured on Rudalls as well. What type of finish do they usually have? Linseed oil?
I can’t claim to “know” what R&R did to finish their flutes, but from the bit of working cocus I have done, it does not appear to me to need any surface finish, nor, on close examination, do most cocus flutes show any sign (to my non-expert, non-cabinet-maker trained eyes) of applied surface finishes. The wood itself is very waxy - often described as “buttery”, and if you surface finish to a very fine level of abrasive and then burnish up the surface with leather or cloth (or, I’m sure Jon C may chip in, buffing wheels with suitable softness), it comes to a pretty good polish untreated. If you get oil on it in the process of oiling the bore, sure, that glosses it up even more, as does application and burnishing of a waxy polish (e.g. Renaissance Wax or a furniture polish), but I don’t think it is actually necessary. I suspect that Rose’s famous polished bores may represent the nature of the timber in similar fashion rather than any special applied substances.
As for estimates, not that long ago a flute like this would have been pretty assured of a price in the £3-3.5k region and I think I have a record (no time to check now) of a fairly similar one which went over £4k 4 or 5 years back… and I’d like (and wouldn’t be astonished) to see it get £3k +. But in the current market, I wouldn’t be surprised if this went for between £1.8-2.5k.
FWIW, certainly at first inspection I thought the keys looked to be GS, but I know from experience how hard it can be to tell from online photos, and like David, I suspect the claw foot keys may make sterling a higher probability - I can’t recall seeing them in GS either.
@ Jim - the period flute cases always (that I have seen) store these flutes with the lower body and foot joints assembled. It is normal.
Thanks. The ad says the flute is three piece and I couldn’t spot the ring tween
the footjoint and the rest, but now I do.
typically they’ll count the head/barrel as one piece
and the RH with Foot as another based on how it’s stored in the case.
technically it’s 5…but many will say 4 or 3.
i agree the flute should see $3500 at the minimum…but you never know.
Based on condition and serial number…it should be ~$4500…but the market…well, you know the rest.
This is interesting. I have two identical flutes by George Butler, both stamped Haymarket London. I’ve had the bottom one for eleven years as my main playing flute (I’ve made a replacement barrel from blackwood, thats why it’s darker, linseed oil finish btw) and the top one, in its case, is still in an unrenovated state. It was probably never played much because a hole for a cork dot key silencer was drilled through to the bore and likely started to leak very early and was perhaps overlooked as the reason to why it didn’t play so well. Anyway, you can clearly see the difference in colour and glossyness. Center joints in particular. The top one has had some sort of finish applied because you can remove it with alcohol (acetone) and it also reacts negatively to water. This leads me to believe it’s a shellac based substance. And anyone with a frensh polished coffe table will know the importance of using a coaster under your cold drink!. Several of the antique flutes I’ve owned have lost their sheen just by handling them and playing them.
yellowhistler,
Re: your flutes “by Butler” – I’m not up-to-date on flute scholarship, but I know that the concertinas labeled Butler, Haymarket were not made by that firm. The Butler-labeled concertinas I have seen were made by other shops including George Jones and Lachenals. At one point I dug up some references on Butler’s business – now that we have internet databases and search engines, you can doubtless find all that and more in a few minutes. Probably you know all this – but a Butler flute might possibly be a very nice instrument, made by an excellent craftsman. 
PG
On the price, I’m going to stick my neck out and say I think it will go for more than £4k sterling. Maybe this is wrong of me, but (a) I have a ‘feeling’ about this one and (b) there are quite a few interested parties to date just going by the bids, which appears to me, normally, to be a sign of something special about to happen. So, I’m saying something more like $6k. Lots more than some think. We’ll see.
Again, only a feeling, but I reckon there still is a market, if the flute is special enough. After that, it’s a question of what constitutes a ‘special’ flute.
This is interesting. I have two identical flutes by George Butler, both stamped Haymarket London. I’ve had the bottom one for eleven years as my main playing flute (I’ve made a replacement barrel from blackwood, thats why it’s darker, linseed oil finish btw) and the top one, in its case, is still in an unrenovated state. It was probably never played much because a hole for a cork dot key silencer was drilled through to the bore and likely started to leak very early and was perhaps overlooked as the reason to why it didn’t play so well. Anyway, you can clearly see the difference in colour and glossyness. Center joints in particular. The top one has had some sort of finish applied because you can remove it with alcohol (acetone) and it also reacts negatively to water. This leads me to believe it’s a shellac based substance. And anyone with a frensh polished coffe table will know the importance of using a coaster under your cold drink!. Several of the antique flutes I’ve owned have lost their sheen just by handling them and playing them.
I am not saying makers have not finished flutes with shellac, I am just saying I haven’t seen any Rudall’s with a shellac finish. If the flute has an oil finish, it will flatten in sheen if alcohol is applied. Sometimes the make will use colored shellac to make the wood appear to be Cocuswood, I have found this out to late after buffing it off! Butler made nice playing flutes, but a lot of times they were not made of the best materials. With real Cocuswood, I will finish it, by using finer sandpaper, finishing with 2000 grit, then buffing with soft buffing wheel, you can then oil or wax it, but it is a very high shine, it will dull with alcohol, as it removes the oils in the wood.
BTW, you can buff your flutes with this method, and they will polish up nicely.