Hi, everyone. Newbie here. I’ve been playing obsessively for a couple of years–obsessively as in I like to have whistles in different rooms of the house so I’m never too far from one, though yes, I’ve managed to resist the temptation to whistle while driving. Even so, my rolls are just starting to really roll, and the natural rhythms are just starting to show through.
Now, I read somewhere that you should never, never, no matter what, learn from sheet music; that even if it’s a short-cut, it’ll mess you up in the long run; that a real whistler will be able to tell which of your tunes you’ve learned by sight and which by ear.
I rely on the written note, but I try to get it off the paper and into my head as quickly as I can. Tell me that’s really OK. I suspect that I’ll never really be good enough for it to matter, anyway.
I’ve recently discovered Michael Eskin’s videos, which are a big help. Do I really have to lose the crutch of getting the music into my head by following along with sheet music while I listen?
I use sheet music when I can’t the music, or when I’m going on a trip (I don’t have an ipod or mp3 player or anything fancy like that) and wanna keep my musical mind active. As long as you do listen to the tune as soon as you can, it should be all right sometimes. I’ve played tunes I’ve learned from the music in front of “real whistlers”, and none of them have pointed out the difference.
I think music is played the best when it comes from the heart. Learning by ear or by sheet music are just means to an end and both are good skills to have.
The thing to avoid is becoming dependent on written music IMO.
I think this is overblown and silly – but there is an important kernel of truth in there.
The thing is, there’s a lot going on in the music that’s not written down in the sheet music. So it’s really important to listen a lot to good players playing the music you’re trying to learn. You don’t necessarily have to learn the which note is which by ear, but you do have to learn how the music should sound by listening to someone who knows what she is doing.
I think what people mean is that if you are trying to play music of a particular kind (rather than sort of making up your own kind based on arrangements of notes you come across, which is fine but a different thing) then you need to listen to a well-respected person who plays that particular kind of music play the particular tune you are learning. Yes, all the well-respected people will play the tune differently, even differently each time they play it, but there will be something there in all of them that you can hear that tells you what the notes are actually doing and where the tune is going.
As an example, I can read sheet music and I tried to learn an Irish tune from sheet music alone—I had not heard the tune played by someone who knows how to play Irish music. I actually did not recognize the tune when I heard it played on a CD by a respected Irish musician—I had the notes but I had no idea what was going on in the tune, where it was going, etc. No one would have recognized the tune I was playing as being a well-known Irish tune—or probably as any sort of tune at all really —, which is what I was striving for. Okay, maybe I am especially lame but that convinced me.
When it is music you have not grown up with, you have to hear the tune properly played—if you want to play it in a particular style—because much is not and cannot be included in the sheet music notation. I could probably play some tunes from my country by just looking at the sheet music—say Protestant hymns, maybe, because I have heard that sort of music a lot or cowboy songs, maybe bluegrass----but I can’t do that with music from another culture. Perhaps one can get advanced enough musically to just play tunes from another culture from sheet music, but I think it would take quite a long time and a lot of listening to be able to do that.
I think you can use the sheet music to help learn the tune, but I would always have to hear how someone who could play Irish music played it. I would get it in my head from listening first so that you are getting the phrasing right when you use the sheet music for help. At least that’s what I decided to do. Have in your head what you are going to be playing, know where you are going before you start reading the notes—then you’ll know if it sounds right. I don’t think anyone really sees anything wrong with that. It’s mainly that you can’t get how it should sound from the sheet music alone if you want to play the tune in a particular style.
I think that learning by ear is considered to be a very good skill to practice because that is how many people would pick up tunes. They hear someone playing something they like and then they can learn that tune without trying to find sheet music.
The written notes are really the skeleton of a traditional tune. They’re very useful for getting the bare bones tune into your head, then your musical experience (listen a LOT!) can take over and breathe life into the tune. If you JUST play what’s written, it will be boring and soulless.
If I didn’t use the dots I would never learn to play anything. However you can’t learn to play without listening to the tune you want to learn. When you have memorized it so you can play without reading the notes play along with a recording of someone who plays correctly. The most important thing is to enjoy what you are doing. Play anyway you can. Just enjoy and forget what people say about such “rules”.
The relationship between written-out ITM and what is regularly played is different than classical music notation vs. its realization live. It’s farther away. This especially includes rhythms, accents, variations on repeats.
Take whatever notes you see in written out ITM with a grain of salt and don’t be disappointed if its different. Unless it’s an actual transcription of a tune you have on a cd, which is the case of the Brendan Breathnach’s tunebooks (vol 3? I think). Then, you have as close as possible to the actual notes.
ONE of the reasons ITM is not notated exactly is because to duplicate the nuance would make for a lot of ink on the paper and would likely discourage the very person its aimed at, the beginner. Using simpler notational conventions gets the idea across, with the tacit understanding that the more advanced player isn’t going to be using it anyway. that’s why much sheet music doesn’t even show rolled notes, but just quarters or dotted quarters.
This is not true of classical music There is micro-nuance in classical music but except for cadenzas, the notes are there on the paper. The exception would be Baroque music, which has a series of ornaments that are often not written out and also, some uneven note values that are notated evenly. In fact, you could say that ITM is notated a bit like Baroque music in that way.
In performance, very accomplished classical musicians are happy to read off of scores in live performances. This is a very foreign concept in ITM. So that’s another difference.
You will also find the same exact professional ITM player doing different versions on different records over time. Once again, sticking to a sheet will not have served you there, if the very best players bend to the nature of their situation and playing partners.
I wouldn’t quite agree with skeleton as a metaphor, because often, all the notes are there. But you miss slight rhythmic variants, like uneven triplets, dotted notes not shown in the manuscript (on hornpipes). In the case of variant versions, well, there’s not much you can do about it.
Unlike classical music, there isn’t a final, written-out and agreed upon set of notes for any tune. So DON’T expect it, don’t keep looking for the “right” version of the tune, unless, as I said, you are matching a recording. Even then, it’s almost never the performer who has supplied the notes and might not be right anyway. By the time you find out the “right” version, you may well have heard a new way to play it anyway that you now prefer.
Get used to seeing the sheet as an approximate way of playing it, then mimic your favorite version of the tune. Eventually, you will develop your own style and make certain choices that match your instrument and playing style. If you are good at reading music, there is no harm, no foul in looking at the sheet while you listen, because it will help you to understand what that artist is doing within the framework of somebody’s “standard” version. Don’t plan on showing up at the pub with your sheets, it usually will not fly, except at specifically-designated “slow” sessions.
Isn’t notated music rather aimed at the experienced musician, the collector, the player who “has the music”? Writing down ITM for beginners is a new (and I daresay American) phenomenon. I’ve watched good players sight-read, and I haven’t seen one who didn’t change some notes, add ornaments, etc. on the first reading. There is a logic and meaning to the bits in the music that a beginner is unlikely to grasp but that makes bare-bones sheet music a useful shorthand for experienced musicians.
Just an example: You often see notations of a tune that contain variations in the second half of the A part. Most players would not put that variation in before the second time through the tune, but it doesn’t matter: The tune is not meant to be played the way it is written; it is only meant to suggest ways the tune has been played or where variations might lie.
It’s that you cannot learn the music from sheet music. Who cares what one should do or not? All that matters is what can be done, and what is impossible. That’s true about being able to hear which tunes were learned from sheet music.
I rely on the written note, but I try to get it off the paper and into my head as quickly as I can. Tell me that’s really OK. I suspect that I’ll never really be good enough for it to matter, anyway.
Seems to me that you should do what you want with your music, and that it’s really okay to do whatever you want.
I’ve recently discovered Michael Eskin’s videos, which are a big help. Do I really have to lose the crutch of getting the music into my head by following along with sheet music while I listen?
What do you want to sound like, what specific music do you want to play? Once you know that, you can ask those whose playing you’d like to emulate how to get there. That way you’ll have a context for questions about sheet music. Good luck.
i like to read the sheet music first, just to get the basics down first, or learn them from hearing it. then i just play from the heart and make the song a little bit of my own, and the way i like it. but i think just plain old sheet music is boring because everybody has their own unique style that they can put into it after they learn the songs. my style is quite different from a lot of people, becaues i didnt listen to many woodwind players, and i never had any learning books at the start, so i just did my own things to the songs and tried to figure them out with my own styles.
It can be both. In the case of ONeill, collecting in the tradition of the 19th century manner, he was writing down as many tunes as he could find, and I suppose it was so that the vast body of tunes wouldn’t be lost. In the case of instructional or simplified modern tunebooks, then its the other way. I see your point.
In the case of Breathnach, well, I’m not sure exactly who its for when I ponder the differences. I guess its not for the beginner but its a record for the ages, I suppose, an improvement on Oneill’s effort…He did make it very readable fwiw…
I didn’t want to go on and on about it, but I am a trained classical musician who always liked the Trad but didn’t start trying to play it in the style until the last decade or so. Because I spent many years playing classical music from sheets, I guess I feel like I have a perspective to offer.
I will say this. Adapting to the trad has caused me to completely reevaluate classical music performances that use sheet music. Especially with early music, that is not that complex, I kind of feel like it wouldnt be that hard for the players to do it from memory. I played solo classical guitar for years from memory in concerts, but I also played ensemble music with sheets for the same amount of time. If I was to return to playing classical music on the stage, I would likely try to do it from memory.
That’s what I have learned from the trad, and I really appreciate it. Sometimes, you just think you can’t do something, but we are marvelous creatures after all, capable of complex things…
I think sheet music is a great way to learn the outline of a tune. More importantly, it’s a great way to get a tune into your motor-memory.
Very few people can sight-read new music at traditional speeds (e.g. ~100+bpm). The only folks I know who can are professional musicians who have practiced sight-reading every day for decades.
When I hear a tune I like, I try to get both recordings + sheet music. Listening to the tune helps to get it into auditory memory. Sheet music, even if played slowly, helps get the pattern into motor memory. Eventually, as the memories get established, the brain works it’s magic, and they become mutually supporting.
Personally, I have found that once a tune is memorized, its much easier to pay attention to all the nuances that bring life to music: phrasing, emphasis, articulations. That’s when playing becomes a true joy.
The best musicians I’ve ever known never play from sheet music.
Trill said an important thing that bears repeating (about sight-reading at speed). Trad music is played so fast, that only by the miracle of computer technology, namely slowing down the recording, can you figure out what is happening in some parts, unless you are lucky enough to go to a workshop, or get lessons with a pro and/or listen and watch up close. And with bands, there is so much going on, that even a really good set of ears has a hard time discerning the actual melody enough to copy perfectly. The more you play, though, the more stuff you hear. When I first started, I didn’t hear a lot of the rolls, I just hear the long notes and couldn’t figure out what the interruptions were.
I leasrnt sight reading for the guitat and never have much trouble memorising a tune then playing it my own way but cant seem to get awaty from the sheet music with the whistle. I am tarting to add embelishments etc but n they never seem to go into memory without the visual trigger of the dots on the page. Not ideal for something that is a folk music that has onle had formanl notation tacked onto it
The best way to tart embellishments is wear really cheap and nasty , fire engine red lipstick when you play the whistle. But be warned: jigs can be a bit of a drag when one is all tarted up.
Because of my classical background, I find that I rely on the dots far too much. I have been trying very hard to get away from that, though, and only have them in front of me if I’m having a hard time figuring out a note just in the listening. I’m hoping that I’m somehow achieving somewhat of a balance, but who knows. For me, they are a crutch. I probably don’t need the dots in reality, but in my mind I do, so I use them in a least a small capacity.
Thanks for all your replies. I just had a thought: there is one limited advantage to using the dots in conjunction with (not instead of) listening, which is that it helps you understand the traditional ways that certain sequences of written notes are played.
For example, if I follow along on paper while I listen to hornpipes, I discover that one typical ending for a hornpipe is usually written as three of the same quarter notes in a row; but it’s played as quarter-note/dotted-eighth-note/sixteenth note half a step down/quarter-note.
So, if I find a hornpipe written that I’ve never heard played, I have a better idea how to translate it. Though for all that, anyone with hornpipes sunk deeply into his brain would know, anyway.
—, which is what I was striving for. Okay, maybe I am especially lame but that convinced me.