Relationship between staple length and head length

Uilleann Pipes
1

G’day guys, I have a question for ya.

Is there a constant in distance from staple eye to lips or does it get shorter as the staple length increases (if there is a constant in the cane softness and scrape shape)?

It is my undertanding that a longer staple in the same head makes the reed flatter overall and changes the relationship between the octaves, plus flattens back D due to the reed lips being further away from the chanter top.

I have been making reeds with a 48mm staple for some time now with reasonable success, but recently made the switch to a longer staple, which has had a miraculous result in easing the jump to the second octave and making the very top D really easy to hit (maybe it’s just down to combination of the taper and eye, I dunno). I’ve got the reed playing pretty well, but it plays much louder than previous reeds and 20 cents sharp, which are things that I’d like to change if possible. I’m tempted to scrape the reed a bit more to quieten and flatten it and then trim the lips to bring the back D back. I’ve got a possible spare staple to make an experimental reed if I dissasemble another reasonable reed, but don’t want to do this if possible.

I have found that my 48mm stapled reeds will not tolerate being trimmed shorter than 76mm (28mm from staple eye to lips), which is where I’m up to with my longer stapled reed (distance above the staple that is). Since I’ve reached this critical point, I’m reluctant to change anything unless there is a rule that a longer staple permits an equal trade where the head can be shorter.

Any comments?

2

No, I haven’t found that to be true.

From my study and experience in reedmaking, I think you have to think in terms of the volume relationship between the staple and head.

I have two reeds that play nearly identically in my C chanter and one (made by Dickie Deegan in '92) has a very small but long staple, and the head is slightly narrower and longer than the shorter stapled reed.

My C staple dimentions for Seth Gallagher C chanter
Eye ID: 0.480"
Bottom ID: 0.520"
Length: 1-15/16"

I have found that few pipemakers can reed their own chanters to my satisfaction. You just have to pick a starting place and work from there. Eventually you will find the “magic” dimentions for your chanter.

3

Cheers for the feedback FancyPiper.

You’re lucky to have one of Dickie’s reeds. I’ve heard they are very good.

4

Hello,

G’day guys, I have a question for ya.

Is there a constant in distance from staple eye to lips or does it get shorter as the staple length increases (if there is a constant in the cane softness and scrape shape)?

It is my undertanding that a longer staple in the same head makes the reed flatter overall and changes the relationship between the octaves, plus flattens back D due to the reed lips being further away from the chanter top.

I believe there is an ‘approximate’ constant ('ere we go) twixt lips and staple eye. I’ve always inserted the staple ‘20mm’ into the tails as a starting point. This being to bring in to ‘focus’ the 2 octaves.

After that, I then will adjust the reed>tail to suit. But, if you look at it this way, if the reed is made from a 100mm slip, then the blade length will be 50mm. Tail inserts to 20mm, therefore staple eye > lips = 30mm.

If you make the slip a little longer to start with then the distance will be greater at eye > lips and your 8ve may well be a bit flat and you need to insert more to bring it back in, and you may well find you are back at 30mm eye > lips..

Anyway, I reckon experimenting with your staple>tail insertion will achieve something to help you. Measure the insertion v eye to lips and see if a pattern emerges.

I started off makingstaples in the 47mm zone and now am nearer 52mm. I can’t for the life work out how I got them in tune. Maybe they weren’t??


(maybe it’s just down to combination of the taper and eye, I dunno).

I reckon. And also I think the former for imparting the final curvature after gouging is important too (and in this lies the slip thickness too, depending on the cane diam.,).

I now use 4 different formers 82mm, 76mm, 70mm and a can of saline solution for contact lenses @ about 65mm, depending on the chanter, the pitch etc., and will also alter the staple taper/eye to suitWhen hand rolling staples, I tend to try not to gouge the tails so I use a 76 or 70mm depending on the cane tube diam.,


[quoit]I have found that my 48mm stapled reeds will not tolerate being trimmed shorter than 76mm (28mm from staple eye to lips), which is where I’m up to with my longer stapled reed (distance above the staple that is). Since I’ve reached this critical point, I’m reluctant to change anything unless there is a rule that a longer staple permits an equal trade where the head can be shorter.[/quoit]

It is often said that a wider head gives sharper back D and narrower gives flatter back d (amongst other things). I think that this may be partly due to the curvature (and therefore internal volume) that is created when the head is tied on.

Too many paragraphs??

5

Alan,

Cheers for your insightful input. I always place a lot of value on your comments. I am, however, a little perplexed with your comment that a wider head produces a sharper back D as my understanding was quite the opposite. Can you confirm that this is definitely the case as this information will see me straight to my shooting board today if it is.

Cheers.

6

Can you confirm that this is definitely the case

I hesitate to ever confirm anything when it comes to reeds, but it is, in my making, usually the way it goes.

To try and put it in context, if I had a chanter that had a predominantly sharp back D and the A & B 2nd 8ve were sharp with a ‘standard’ reed, I’d make the head narrower (and maybe a little longer) and also narrow the eye of the staple (and perhaps narrow the whole staple ‘flare’).

So, it kind of stands to reason that you would go the opposite direction if you had flat back D and flat A n B 2nd 8ve.

Another thing, is that you can pull the staple out a little, and that sharpens back D a bit and hopefully the wider head will compensate a bit for the flattening effect of the 8ve notes that also occurs.

The only thing about this, is that when you make a wider head, you get a greater internal volume inside the reed head and will, very likely, need to be a bit brutal closing down the reed, and you can then lose all you achieved, as the closure will flatten back D, and by the time you have the reed playing to your liking the D will be back where it started, so you may need to alter the curvature of the former when you sand the slip.

This is based on a ‘standard’ reed being 12.6mm and a wide reed no more than 13.2mm.

This all applies to the tuning and not the pitch of the reed. (Though of course it will all have an effect on the pitch)

Hope this helps.

Oh, and maybe the reed head needs to be alittle shorter when made wider and visa-versace.

7

G’day Alan,

Thanks for clarifying and expanding on your point. I’ve always steered away from wider reeds (except for trying a 14mm reed in my early reed making days) since I have always struggled with flat back D’s and believed that the wide head would exacerbate this. In finding a ‘standard’ design that produces the best results for me, I’ve been making my reeds 12.6mm every time for a couple of years now. However, I will try to go against my long-held belief and have a go at a 13mm wide reed, as I trust your input.

Thanks mate

8

“Relationship between staple length and head length”

I’d say they’d be atleast first cousins :confused:

PD.

9

Badump bump. :laughing:

10

Mine are at least twice removed.

11

Badump bump- tish!

12

Weh weh weh!

Podge.