Mr. McLeod’s (not Mrs) reel, as taken from thesession is said to be in Adorian (ie. on the ABC), but it’s clearly a G reel. So what’s that all about? Is it someone’s mistake, or is it purposed to be in A since this is a Scottish reel? All I wanted was to play it the key it was written for in the first place…
I love that reel. If you haven’t heard Frank Jordan play it on Music at Matt Molloy’s, I strongly recommend it. Great strong flute playing, so melodic and clean. Hope I can grow up to play like that some day!
yes trip. this very sort of thing thing was explained by Nano and myself in this other recent topic
for to help questions like yours.
For the mode of A Dorian, the staff key signature = G or E min.
Some may prefer A Dorian to be described as under E min key signature option.
However with the piece in question it is a “gapped mode” piece. You will see that it has no C. No third interval.
Therefore it could be described either as gapped A Mixolydian or gapped A Dorian and could be notated in either D or E min key signature.
[erroneous comment edited. sorry, was thinking about another piece]
If you use a G flute your cuts for the A will bring out a Dorian (minor) feel on account of the C. THis also means that chordal accompaniment can utilise A min.
If you use the standard D flute your cuts for the A will bring out a Mixolydian (major) feel on account of the C#. This also means that chordal accompaniment can utilise A maj.
(Nothing in this post is meant to proscribe “ambiguous treatment” in accompaniment if your worships so choose.)
I kind of forgot that A-dorian is of the Gmaj scale.
But I fail to understand how this is not a Gmaj (G-Ioanian) tune, and rather A-dorian as stated… (?)
Ionian, Dorian, Mixolydian etc are names that describe the mode of the melody.
Key signature tells you how the staff lines or the notation lines are programmed.
Now the above piece resolves at A. We are talking of line or melodic resolution. That is the home note or tonic is A. See how A is the end note and the longest note. (Sometimes, in a lot of dance music, the score is presented as a snippet of a circular continuum and it is difficult to tell what the tonic is - just from dry reading of the score -but that is not the case here).
Now, what is the interval value of all the other notes in relation to the A.
A is tonic
B is a major second
(no C# or C and therefore no third, either major or minor)
D is a perfect fourth
E is a perfect fifth
F# is a major sixth
G is a minor seventh.
That SPELLS almost a dorian or a mixolydian mode. It is, in fact, in a gapped dorian or a gapped mixolydian mode.
Chordal treatment will settle the feel of it either way or ambiguously.
lets say you’ve got a district map with seven villages on it. key signature is the name of the map (where the name is based on the district which covers those villages). But when you are travelling within that district you may use any one of the 7 villages as a base on your day tours. the mode tells us which is your base village and the order of your visit to the other centres. this will tells us something about the quality of your tour.
Its the same district with the same villages. But if your home base is a mountain village that will give you a different taste then if your home base is a seaside village. Imagine arriving home hungry after a day’s tour to a warming sunset by the sea. Contrast this with arriving home to a cold, windy isolated mountain chalet with goats clambering about the rocks and …
analogies are always risky, I know. I hope something here clicks.
putting modes asside for a minute,
this tune’s tonic is G, since the melody resolves to G, not to A, even if the passage ends on the A. That’s what my first post was about basicly… about the tonica of this tune.
I have it in two sources, one in G and one in A. The one in A has a hand-written note saying “Scottish” next to it. But neither sounds modal to me.
It doesn’t sound like it’s been resolved when you reach the end note. Some tunes seem to be like that, as if they are meant to go round and round forever or else segue into another tune.
this is explained in my other posts here and as linked.
The melodic mode is gapped A mixolydian or gapped A dorian. Treated solely melodically it will be so particularly if you set it, as in most melodic traditions to the melodic mode’s tonic (as opposed to the theorietical scale tonic) DRONE of A. If you set it to the a G drone or a chordal traetment that that insinuates the G scale tonic the piece will SOUND like a modulation in G and if you were to set it to an E drone or emhasise the Emin chord in it its treatment the piece will sound as a modulation in the E min scale.
This is a question of options, interpretation, tastes etc. The identifying of a melodic mode for a piece is just one of many tools. It is an “atomic” or core descriptor becuase it goes back to a plainsong society where songs were sung and tunes played unaccompanied and the naked melody was what attracted the description.
The idea that a tune is modal or not modal or this or not that and only this or that is inane. Every piece of music involves features that are amenable to various descriptions and treatments or interpretations.
To get back to the point, the treatment will either emphaise the melodic mode tonic or may tastefully insinuate the melody as a modulation of the G major scale or the The E minor scale etc.
There is nothing confusing or mystical or abstruse about this. The only confusing thing is to use the heading “key signature” to nominate the melodic mode. But that is not some big deal.
Not read this all but I don’t think it would be grossly out of line to let Garret Barry’s reel resolve on A. Also, the version more common until recently was not of a gapped scale but ended eccB cdef gedB A. That’s the way Willie Clancy got it from his father who remembered it from Garret’s playing.
Yes, and a modal descriptor for that version as A Dorian or a key signature descriptor for it as either E min or G would tell us that all the notes are without # or b except for F. And if the c was meant to be C# also one would use A Mixolydian or key signature D. Nothing remarkable about that (or necessarily ocnfusing.
Anyway a question, with respect, directly to you Peter seeing as you play the Irish pipes:-
Is there tendency to use a D or G drone for all pieces when you play Uileann Pipes?
talasiga,
first of all thanks for participating I appreciate your input
Of course that you’re right about giving a certain melody a drone backup may drive the melody to a certain modulation, thus making the melody sound different/weird/complementing whatever, basicly changing its melodic tonic. (ie. Bothy Band’s First Album, Craig’s Pipes – different drones)
But you can say that about any tune out there, so what shall be written on the ABC?
If you play Garret Barry’s on the flute, without a drone backup - let’s say with a bodhran backup instead - the melody itself guides to a G closure (maybe it’s my crazy ears or something) - i’d say that it would be harder to imagine an A drone out there that makes the melody A-dorian (A tonic) than it would be to imagine a G drone going with it.
(esspecially with those c notes that Peter noted about)
trip, I don’t understand what your problem is unless you are trying to take or arrive at some absolute position about musical treatment.
In terms of melodic line resolution of the piece as per the notation you have supplied in your first post you can see it ENDS on A, quitre definitively. The author of that notation has described that as A Dorian (albeit wrongly under the heading of “key”).
Now you like to do a decorative twiist down to G for to finish and that sounds just as good and it does not alter the A tonic reckoning in terms of the melody line itself. Listen the clip Peter Laban provided above. All sound good and all are unremerakable (not unusual or surprising). Three versions, two on A and the last twisting off (like the Celtic curls you see in ancient manuscripts) down to G. There could just as well be a 4th version that curls down to G and then up to A again. TRy it. A 5th version could curl it up to E. This does not disprove that the core tune finshes on A.
Its just a descriptor and doesn’t really force you to interpret the tune or develop it one way or the other. A descriptor is not a prOscriptor.
I am pretty sure if Peter were to post an audio of him playing that piece on his pipes with the 3 D drones he could curl down to the D to finish off and that would sound good too if he did it tastefully, That doesn’t change the MELODY LINE of the piece which is the basis of the melodic mode descriptor.
(sorry about typos - I have sore shoulders from overboarding on flute).
