Reed needs lots of air pressure and I don't know why

Uilleann Pipes
1

G’day Guys,

I just thought I’d share a recent reeding experience that has got me quite perplexed.

I had a reed that was very good, but not perfect. Due to anxiety about wanting perferction for a public performance at a fundraiser dinner, I fiddled with it, got frustrated with it, called it a Bi*%h, and cracked it trying to raise a tightly fitting wire bridle that was placed below the shoulders (Moral: don’t reed in anger). This was two days before the big night so I quickly made a new reed blank that day and scraped it the day before the performance (this is the second time this has happened!).

Anyway, the resultant reed, although nicely tuned through both octaves, plays at a really high air pressure and I can’t work out why this is the case when all dimensions are along the lines of previous easy blown reeds - I even used the same staple and some cane from the same tube as the last reed. I closely matched the previous reed’s dimensions, but when put in the chanter for the first time, the back D was rediculously flat. I withdrew the staple and trimmed the reed back to allow for a second go at it, but this time, the reed was really hard to blow and wouldn’t allow me to close it down because it just became reluctant and squeaky when I did this (understandably).

Everything seems the same as the last reed, except this reed’s slip thickness is 0.1mm thinner and the lips are 0.05mm thicker. The air tightness of the reed is absolutely fine.

I’ll be sticking with this reed as it’s tuning is brilliant (just a flat octave E and a reluctant hard D), but have any of you ever experienced this sort of thing?

For those interested in the reed dimentions, they are as follows:
Overall length: 77mm
Staple: 50mm brass tubing with a 1.7mm eye (flattened over 25mm)
Slip: 1.1mm centre thickness, 0.3mm edge thickness, 12.6mm wide, formed on a 50mm sanding block
Head/tails: 24mm head, 28mm tails
Bridle: copper wire immediately above the binding (binding stops at staple top)
Lips: 0.3mm thick - I haven’t measured the lip opening, but it probably equal to or smaller than the norm

p.s. the performance went well and I was approached by one of the audience to give a presentation and performance of the pipes to a school in my area (naturally, I accepted because I love talking about the pipes).

All the best

2

Well, new reeds need playing in. Prehaps the reed will become easier to play after 2-3 weeks regular playing? It’s said that if the reed is scraped too much in the beginning of it´s life in order to make it easier to blow then it may not last as long as a reed that is stiff to start off with. Cillian O’Briain in the “Heart of the instrument” DVD talks about chanter reeds lasting around 6 months, whilst Geoff Wooff means a good reed can last years. Of course many factors are involved. You say you are using the same measurements as before, but are you using the same kind of cane?

3

Goldy,

I reckon your 50mm former might be troublesome. As I mentioned in another thread about sharp reeds, try a wider diam., around 70mm (I use 82mm as a standard, but do work within 70 - 82mm for concert pitch).

4

Alan, I agree that a wider former is better. However some methods (for instance Andreas’ old formula) used about 40-42mm as a former, and either a high bridle or tail leverage (or both) to close the lips. My thinking is that this deadens the reed’s response noticeably, but there are methods that use these smaller formers with some success.

Also, the narrower (~12mm) heads favored by Benedict Koehler (which I am using as a model for concert pitch, currently), the 70+/80 mm formers seem to be a bit too big. I’m using scrapers now but my guess is that the inner diameter I’m scraping to at the lips is more like 65mm. (For anyone who wants to try the narrower heads I suggest about 85/86mm length overall and hand-rolled staples - the hobby tubing seems a mite too narrow for most chanters when combined with the narrower reed head).

Bill

5

I like the cut of your jib young man!!

With the narrower heads, is the hand rolling a compensation (perhaps more ‘tail leverage’ as you so nicely put it, and the curvature when tying on) moving some of the tuning from the reed head to the staple? (D’you know what I mean, Larger head cavity, sharper 8ve, larger diam., staple sharper 8ve, reduce one, and enlarge another but still keep a balance ??? )…

6

Guys,

I’ll take your comments on board and have a try with different formers.

I have tried larger formers previously, but have not had any luck with a former greater than 65mm. When using large formers, I have either had issues with lips being too closed or the sides not closing. I played around with tone chambers to counter this without success too.

I’ve been making all my reeds on either a 42mm or 50mm former for a while now - some have needed heavy closing with the bridle, but I’ve gotten some nice results from others.

On the playing in thing, I played it last night (3 days after making it) to find that the playing pressure already seemed a lot less, although it was raining heavily at the time so it could have just been the humidity assisting. I do like my reeds easy to blow (A well known Aussie piper recently said that he couldn’t play my last reed because it was too light, but that Geoff Woofe would like it). Like I said previously, I’m sticking with it as the tuning is great (although 20 cents/445h sharp overall) and there are no funny pressure differences between notes to worry about other than an octave E needing a bit more air. The pressure is probably normal and I just need to give myself time to get used to it.

Cheers

7

Can someone elaborate on what a “former” is? Thanks!

8

Harlow,

A ‘former’ is what forms the inside curvature of the cane slip. It is more commonly called a ‘sanding block’, but the two terms are used interchangably depending on who’s talking about it (I switch between the two all the time).

There are lots of examples of two term for the one thing in piping and reed making (e.g. ‘whipping’/‘binding’ is used to tie up a reed, which has a ‘scrape’/‘Vee’ that travels from a ‘heel’/‘base’ to the lips. The reed is controlled with a ‘belt’/‘bridle’ and sits in the chanter ‘socket’/‘seat’. If the reed is tuned correctly, the ‘back D’/‘thumb note’ should match the ‘bell note’/‘bottom D’).

Cheers.

9

I know this will sound like an absolutely stupid suggestion, but have you checked the bag and fittings for leaks? My first temptation is to start monkeying about with reeds only to find something was loose and leaking air. I are an retard sometimes. :laughing:
Marc

10

Markpipes.

I have not checked for leaks as the bag and bellows have always been great and I had been playing the easy reed only two days prior without problems.

However, good point. Sometimes the problem is so basic that it is overlooked.

11

umm… when you cut the reed, you are left with thicker blades. Do you need to sand them a bit more? Have you tried sanding the tailes down abit more? You could try sanding right where the 2 slips begin to form the tail, so that it forms a gradual slope to the tip of the tail. What this will do is put less stress on the cane when you tie it ( thus creating a smaller cavity for air to go through, and you are not forcing the reed to become something you want it to be, reather creating the perfict form/adjustment) and it can conform to the staple a bit better. If you force the slips to be something that they are not made to do, they will crack, or you wont get the result desired. What I have noticed is that if the tail it too wide, it is hard to tie, and it takes alot if air & loud. This has aleast worked for me a couple of times. Oh, you could try working with non-wire bridles. If you treat them well, they will treat you well! It distributes pressure over a more wide surface so that the cane is less likely to crack, rather then a very thin wire wrapped a couple times around. I hope I have givin’ you some usefull advice…Good luck!