My original post was deleted. Below is a paraphrase of the original post:
Here I clarified that I was not bringing up my Patrick Sky timeline with any type of disrespect for Mr. Sky. On the contrary, that i had the highest respect and regard for Mr. Sky’s accomplishments. And while I didn’t say it in the original post, “Songs that Made America Famous” is one of my favorite albums of all times.
“Mr. Sky; are you telling me that you DIDN’T play in a session within 6 months of playing the pipes?”
That is a funny question, because in 1971 there was no such thing as a “session”. Music at that time was played in homes. In Ireland you would get pitched out on your ear if you tried to play in a Pub. No one wanted to hear “Bogman” music.
I did not try to play with other musicans at home sessions until around 1975 and I did not play the pipes in public until at least 1977.
My first tune was Lark In the Morning which I played for over a year without learning another tune. I reasoned that If I could not play one tune well, then many tunes would be horrific. I drove my friends and my wife nuts playing only one tune. Now that I look back on it, I was the one that was nuts.
One of the reasons that I was able to do so much was that I did not hold down a regular job during that time and I had mucho time on my hands.
All the best,
Pat
That’s it! When I get home tonight, I’m letting the wife know I’ve quit my job!
That’s excellent! I would have peed myself laughing if I had been there. Its also one of my favourite songs, that and “Optimistic Voices” (You’re out of the woods, You’re out of the dark, You’re into the shite. etc.). But anyways …
I’m not nearly good enough to take my pipes to a session, even if there was a session here. But I think I understand the mindset people are describing here. Playing an instrument to some people is not an end in itself, but a vehicle to get something else they think they really want. Its like the attitude that says you can’t go for a bike ride anymore unless you’re riding the latest XYZ model bike (import, of course) and wrapped head to toe in Spandex. Simple, personal pleasure in a thing for and of itself is not enough for some.
I like my pipes. I like the way they sound. Some day I hope to be good enough to share them with like-minded musicians. The rest can piss off. 
djm
Also…
I’ve known this guy for a long time now, he’s quite the enigma. I was playing with him a session years ago, another musician walked in and this rather forthright box player yells “Fergus! Get over here and sit next to **** so you can hit him over the head with that f*****’ low whistle!”
I gave up on the sessions around then but **** didn’t. Probably he has a dent in his head by now…
An article in one of the club publications, or online, on how to quiet down a loud chanter would be a good thing. Then all these unmusical pipers can go on with their wailing awfulness without bending people’s ears.
This is good reading, “Sanger’s Guide to Learning Irish Fiddle”: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6464/fidintro.html. Lots of helpful advice there on not being unlistenable.
Here’s my 2 cents as a rank beginner. Playing in a public forum has never been a goal for me.
The only sessions I have been to are the gatherings of the Salt Lake pipers club. In an extraordinary stroke of good luck for me, there are several excellent and extremely gracious musicians in the group. They are always patient and encourage the beginners to join in on any tunes they want to. Whether they do this because they know we will only play along for 1 or 2 tunes or because they remember that they were once beginners, I don’t know. I do know that I am grateful for the time they give and feel like I learn from every gathering. If there were many beginners trying to play for the whole session, that would suck! I enjoy sitting back, listening and watching the more advanced players as much as anything at the gathering.
My own personal belief if that I will encourage and help a beginner in any area that I have more expertise, but I will also be upfront about the boundaries. It might be much more productive tell a beginner when they are headed up the wrong path and tell them nicely, but plainly, what the boundaries are for that particular session. Encourage them to record a particular tune that they can learn and play along with outside the session and take a few minutes at the beginning of a session to let them play that song after they learn the tune. Encourage them to stay for the rest of the session and watch and learn. It is my experience that most people who have a love and an expertise in something were, at one point in the beginning, influenced greatly by someone or ones who were kind enough and gracious enough to say “what you are doing is not acceptable, but this is what is acceptable”.
That said, I don’t think you can do anything with a complete clod who is unwilling to play by the rules of the sand box except to ban them from playing in the sandbox.
end of 2 bit philosophy
John
Very good points raised there John. Just for the record, the sessions I am speaking of are sessions in a pub or public place generally. At pipers club meetings I would heartily encourage people to join in if they know the tune or it is one they are working on becauses that is a learning environment. The session is a learning environment too… just not for pipers… we’re just too loud and put everyone off… I have to admit I am guilty of this myself… a tune starts that you think you know but alas… NAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!
Patrick.
My original post was deleted. Below is a paraphrase of the original post:
I believe here I began expanding the argument in favor of performance over just playing for yourself. My point here was that it is my belief that music is a communication vehicle and I think I said here that if I didn’t think I would eventually play the pipes live, I would give them up. That I couldn’t see the point otherwise. I probably stated the case too strongly, as this is where the definition of performance got confused in future posts as well as people thought that I meant playing for yourself wasn’t also valuable and rewarding.
I also said that playing only in your room and never for people: “It would be like practicing putting in your living room but never playing a real game of golf.”
Paris Hilton has become a celebrity for doing a lot less than learning how to stumble through An Phis Fluich
This has to be the absolute funniest thing I’ve seen on this list given the supposed translation of the name of tune and Ms. Hiltons home movies (which I’ve not seen by the way).
Kudos Chadd…you made me smile!
I think that Pat is right about this.
I plead guilty to having joined in sessions when I should not have. Early on, I learned to assess my skills and competency and, once I became in tune to my shortcomings, I bailed from the local music scene and went to simply learn to play the pipes. A few years later, I went out on occasion to house parties or sessions, found myself more welcomed, got disgusted still, became more of a loner musician so I could expand my repertoire and skills, and now get out regularly to a regular session with folks who play at my level. They seem to welcome my attendance.
I have had the sense to stay out of sessions when the well-known and experienced musicians have played here in town and abroad. There are some great musicians in town who have a regular session every other Friday. I’ve been invited to show up with the pipes but I still see myself as needing many more years of playing before I join in so I stay away out of respect for them and the music. I do attend occasionally when the desire to hear dynamic live Irish music strikes my fancy. Gee whiz, I usually pack up the pipes after a few tunes when the house party is at my home so as to not spoil the craic and good session. At other house parties, I sometimes still do not have the sense to stay out but am becoming quick to make an exit if I’m off the mark or the pipes aren’t going as well as they should.
I use to think that session etiquette was about how people treated other musicians in attendance but I think it starts at “home” and is about how you yourself play and behave towards other musicians in session or at a house party. If you’ve nothing to offer and “don’t speak the language” then just listen and listen carefully. Sooner or later, you will be invited into the session to demonstrate your abilities regardless of how rudimentary your playing. That’s when you play the pipes to the best of your abilities and express gratitude for the opportunity. Never mind this showing up and expecting to play.
One helpful approach we’ve had in Nashville on occasion is a “slow session” for those of us with less experience while we await the accomplished musicians to show up after the announced start time. It works well and this way everybody gets to play. For big sessions at my home, we have had one going in the main room and another in an upstairs bonus room for the less experienced. It’s great and everybody gets to have some tunes. Folks merely in attendace just to hear good music can bop between the two and see the different dynamics, hear a broad range of tunes, etc.
Forget this getting laid stuff. I only know of one guy who got laid as he was a piper… and he did it with a lady piper. My wife sez that I’d get laid more if I DID NOT play pipes as I usually sit to play just after she goes to bed. Hmmm…
Oh.
Then I guess it wasn’t me. 
I’m with Pat Sky on this one.
I am kind of old school when it comes to pipes. I have been playing for 20 years. Thats not a huge deal, but I did get my practice set from Dan Dowd, who got his practice set in 1919, so maybe you can see where some of my thinking comes from.
Mick O’Brien taught me for 4/5 years and when we were kids he told us we were not allowed play in sessions. It wasn’t coz we were shight, (i won the All Ireland Fleadh after 3 and a half years playing) It was because (1) we didn’t have enough respect for our elders at that age, (someone whose playing for 2 years should not be in a session with someone whose being playing for 30 years,) and (2) because we couldn’t!!
Just coz we won solo competitions, it doesn’t mean you can blend in with others in a session atmosphere. It takes a bit more that being a good player to be able to bring something to a session.
By the way I had a practice set for 3 years and it did me no harm at all. Theres no big rush for full sets at all!!!
I think if more pipers took their time with practice sets it would only beneit them.
If you’re playing any instrument for 2/3 years, you should not do it in public because you CAN’T.
Now theres nothing wrong with organising local sessions with people of the same ilk as your selves. Do that and enjoy it. But don’t go to the local established session that have been going for years and expect to be welcomed coz you have 6 tunes and the rest of the lads have 2500 tunes. You’ll be encouraged up until a point.
When I was 15 my Dad used to bring me to the local session. I played 1 tune, if the lads knew it they would join in. Most of them did and that was my session night out. I played my one tune because that was all I could do. The rest of the lads were happy coz they got to encourage the local piper kid and I didn’t wreck their session.
Be kind to your local musos and have fun.
But take your time, there’s no rush at all.
Tommy
edit: I am not long in from the pub so i am going on a bit… 
another curious aspect of this topic is the outright mania to own multiple instruments. at east durham this year and last i simply could not believe some players with 2 and 3 sets of pipes, coupla’ high end flutes and whistles and not being able to play fuckall! when i started playing the up it was a practice set for 4 years, partially due to lack of money and due to the realisation that the shit that i was playing wasn’t music. but these days , buy buy buy, the playing will surely improve. gotta have that new mousetrap. and in so far as sessions being treated as open mic’s well consider this for a moment. we now have a generation raised on dj’s and karaoke. (usa of course) no has to play shit!
Joined: 07 Nov 2001
Posts: 286
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:36 am Post subject: more speed, more tunes, more orniments, or more by ear?
Ok, I’m at a cross roads, and thought I’d put this out here to see if I can stir up some discussion and get some input on where I’m headed…
I’m almost to the end of my first year playing the pipes (yea! only 20 more to go!)…am feeling much more comfortable playing the ‘beastie’ and know a handful of tunes, which I’m getting better at playing through at a moderate pace without flub ups.
Most of them I’ve learned from the written music although a couple I’ve learned by ear from teachers. I’m fortunate that I took Band for 6 years in school, so have learned to read music quickly. However, learning by ear is a chore for me (and worse for the teacher I’m sure!).
The tunes I know are: Inisheer, Southwind, Boys of Blue Hill, Sean Bui, Wards Jig, Garret Barry’s, Blarney Pilgrim, Britches full of Stitches, Maggie in the Woods, Spancil Hill, and have started working on Out on the Ocean and Drops of Brandy.
I’ve been working on clean fingering (tidy fingering as Keiran O’Hare would say), with a few slides into notes, my crans are getting better, and have worked in a few triplets (gfe, bcd)…but only a couple of rolls are workin’ and no vibrato.
Recently, my teacher suggested adding a drone, so I’ve been practicing with at least one drone, sometimes two going on the slow tunes.
So, this brings me to my question…where should I focus my time now?
My thoughts are that increased speed will come on its own as I play more and more, as will orniments.
I believe working on learning by ear will serve best as it will kill multiple birds with one stone…adding to my tune list as well as helping with articulation and orniments.
The first tune I’m planning to tackle is from Seamus Ennis the Pure Drop, 4th track “O’Sullivan the Great March”..any other suggestions for tunes to begin learning by ear? I did a search on this topic but didn’t find anything.
-gary
[/quote] the above is from snoogie who in my opinion has his head screwed on straight regarding the learning process. if his lead could be followed this thread wouldn’t be necessary. (by the way sooner or later i’ll figure out this quote thang. any hints? please send a pm i’m soooooo cyber ignorant )
All this talk o sessions and no one has mentioned yet(I think) that sessions can actually be quite bad for your pipering!!
I believe if ye are aspiring to be a pub /bar session player then ye are not aspiring to be a piper.
The session music will rattle along at whatever friggin speed is in vogue,regardless of what the actual tempo is meant to be and most if not all “musicians” will play along rather mechanically until the next tune then repeat it all soaking up the applause or whatever from an adoring but mainly innebriated audience.
Little or no thought for the feel of the music and hardly any ornamentation,just bare bones stuff I call it.
ye certainly won’t be able to appreciate the full potential o the pipes like that,and ye could begin to believe that ye have arrived if ye can play like the rest and that is ye done as a piper!
I am speaking here o sessions that I have been to in Scotland /England and more or less with very few exceptions that has been my experience.Ireland on the other hand has produced some very fine sessions indeed and a lot of crap ones as well.
I am certainly not knocking sessions if ye want to go out and have a bit o fun,but I do suggest that ye do not take the session as the yardstick by which to measure your pipering,music sure,learn tunes,why not,but keep it in perspective.
ye can always marry the flute player eh Alan? 
Anyways don’t let this stop ye going to sessions,just realise they are not the be all and end all…
Slan Go Foill
Uilliam
oleorezinator, thanks for the compliment. With regards to sessions, I definitely know that I have no business being at a session with an instrument (pipes or whistle) in my hand. When I’ve attended the local Monday sessions, I purposely leave all instruments at home…then there is no possibility of joining in.
That being said, we have a monthly slow session that I try and make as often as possible, for the reasons you guys have already covered.
My belief is that it will be AT LEAST 2-3 more years before I’m ready for the ‘real’ session…and I’ll know its time when one of the regulars hears me play and invites me to the session.
Plus, playing at a session is not my main goal. When I started on the pipes, I did so because I loved the sound and would be quite happy playing by myself forever. Since then, I’ve discovered a lot of great people in the Irish music ‘community’ and enjoy the social aspect of the music…but certainly am not crazed in any way to take my pipering into the general public.
-gary
Freudian slip???.. 
Quality Control!!! That’s the issue
I think it is a good idea for any player to record themselves at home and listen to it, tap your feet to it [if you can…and sometimes you can’t!] and maybe seek out a truly independant opinion on it, before even THINKING about inflicting the sound on other folk.
Mick O’Brien’s angle on [not] playing with others or playing in public is spot on…wait til you’re ready [and expect it to be a long time]
B
My original post was deleted. Below is a paraphrase of the original post:
Here I believe I said “For those of you practicing a way in your rooms waiting for that day in which you will be good enough to play in front of people - I don’t think that day will ever come. You will never sound good enough.” Here and in subsequent posts I go on about the importance of performing with and for others, and not “hiding your light under a bushel” as the religious folks would say.