Question on 8 key flute

Irish Flute
21

We’ve had a long and boring argument about oiling plugs at least once before. I’m with Terry - why not oil them? If you’re not peacock-proud about what people think of your dry plugs, why not give them every advantage in the world and hit them with a drop or two of oil? I have some plugs and plates made by Chris Wilkes that are 1) as finely made/fitted as any you’ll see anywhere, and 2) still make a crisper note with a bit of oil. This really is a no-cost, non-controversial practice, despite much verbiage to the contrary. Cheers,

Rob

22

Heh heh, just lucky, I guess, Jem. Try the oil, you’ll probably find at least some of the flutes will play better. I would expect it to reduce the tendency to stick down, and it will help protect the pewter from oxidation and wear.

Now it prompted me to see what the inventer of the pewter plugs, Richard Potter had to say on the topic. On his flutes, every key has a pewter plug, so sealing becomes all the more important. I have a copy of “A Scale or Gamut, explaining the Use of the additional Keys in Mr Potter’s new-invented Patent German Flute”, published by Harrison, probably on Potter’s behalf, on 14 April, 1787, 2 years after Potter took out the patent on his flute. It shows a typical Potter classical 6 key (Bb, G#, Short F, Eb, C#, C) and gives the scale from low C to third Octave F. It concludes the section on The Use of the Additional Keys:

“If the Keys should at any time fail to stop [ie seal], the Valve [pewter plug]must be turned round, and the Keys struck or snapped, which will force the Valve into the Centre, and remove any trifling Obstruction. A little Oil should sometimes be applied to the Valves to prevent Rattling.”

Rockstro, writing in 1880 mentions:

“The stopping of these valves, (or plugs, as they are now generally termed) was excellent, but their action was extremely noisy, and it was necessary to apply oil to them. They never were very popular, except for the keys of the c’# and d’ holes, usually named the c’[natural symbol] and c’# keys.”

So back in 1787, Potter recommended oil to prevent rattling, but relied on snapping the keys to keep the plugs operating freely. By 1829 (42 years later), Lindsay just recommended cleaning and oiling. In 1880, Rockstro also notes the need for oil. I’m not aware of any other references to maintaining pewter plug keys, but three out of three so far isn’t bad!

There’s also the general engineering advice that metals that will come into contact should always be oiled to prevent fretting (the transference of metal from one surface to the other). My Magnahelic Flute Leakage Detector also can tell easily between pewter plugs that have been oiled and ones that haven’t, and so can I when playing. So, I’d go with the oil! If the fit of the plugs is good anyway, you won’t need much oil or to oil often.

I should have added that some oil should also be applied to the ring on the end of the key shaft that holds. These plugs are intended to be self-aligning (it would be impossible to guarantee fixed alignment in such a simple wooden instrument), and this means the plug should be free in the ring.

Terry

23

Thanks for the background stuff, Terry - interesting reading! Leaving aside the newly arrived Prowse, though, I don’t think 5 out of 5 is “luck”. None of them except the worn one on my R&R show any tendency to stick down - and that one isn’t about lubrication. Oiling aside, I think my clip demonstrates it is by no means inevitable that grasshopper foot keys should be problematic.

24

During WW1, the U.S Rifle, Cal. 30, M1903 was issued with a lovely little nickel tube, designed to be stowed in the buttstock, containing a tool kit. It contained, in addition to a clever, pull-through brass bore cleaning tool, a small quantity of full-bodied oil to lubricate the moving parts of the rifle. The oiler’s cap featured a spade-tipped needle applicator, plus a gasket to prevent leaks. One of these tubes would fit neatly into a flute case.

Perhaps a further search might even turn up a period-correct oiler that could be used for 19th-century flutes.

Rob

25

That’s what whales say, definitely.

It sounds like the two low keys need to be rethought to correct for the mechanical
disadvantages Dave and Terry mention. I believe Terry has been working on this,
in fact.

It strikes me that tiny electrical engines cleverly concealed in the
key blocks would provide additional downward thrust, a bit like
power steering on automobiles. The foot joint
could come with a plug-in adapter for recharging.

26

Thanks for posting the video Jem. I agree that someone of your skill and experience in repair should, with patience, be able to get the foot key mechanism working fine. I also agree that a good player should be able sound the low notes provided that you have the foot joint rotation correct to within a millimeter, and figure out the grip adjustments needed (as you describe in your earlier posting). My point is that a design which requires this amount of skill in both adjustment and playing is very much in need of improvement. Of course, if you have an antique flute with foot keys, the most rewarding thing to do is to get it properly adjusted (and I’d recommend yourself to do the work) and to work hard on figuring out the best way to play it. However, as a flute maker, I have to look at how the design can be made more robust, particularly when there are some obvious ways to achieve this improvement.

Dave Copley
Loveland Ohio

27

Good luck, Dave. Many have worked on this problem over the years, and yet many players still prefer the old pewter plugs. I’m all for a better foot joint; in fact, I’m having a custom one done up to suit me as we speak. Still, I’m generally skeptical of pad-style foot keys, since they just don’t have the positive lock that a pewter plug does. With plugs, you actuate the key, and Whack!, the plug seals and you have your note. With pads, it always seems like you’re mashing to get the thing to close. Additionally, the weight of the pewter adds considerable inertia to the actuation, an effect which I quite like. I may have some little lead fishing-weights installed in my new, pad-style foot keys to replicate this feel. Cheers,

Rob

28

I hope you’ll share your thoughts on the new foot when you get it, Rob.

I agree the mashing action is an issue with padded foot keys, precisely because of the problem Dave mentioned, the poor mechanical advantage. Boehm’s arrangement is a bit better than grasshoppers in this regard, having a 1:1 mechanical advantage, but it’s harder to adapt to block mounting. It could be that a fairly firm pad (eg a thin bladder pad) in a self-aligning cup with a bit of spring in the shaft could combine the precision of plugs with the silence of pads.

There’s not a lot of impetus to perfect the C foot, given that most ITM players are perfectly happy with a D foot! So not surprisingly, few makers offer one. I wonder how many tunes actually use low C or C#? It should be possible to interrogate massive .abc collections to find out. But I can’t even remember how to write low C in ABC! Anybody?

Just one final point on oiling plugs I should have made - don’t use vegetable oil (almond, linseed, tung, etc) on the plugs. Like a tuning slide, you don’t want anything gummy here!

Terry

29

My daughter’s flute has pewter plugs, and they’re not well set up or in good shape, really they need a major overhaul. But I can’t be bothered because with a spot of oil they work perfectly. And my Hill/Monzani has got the non-padded leather on “floating” disk, “pads” and I need to put a spot of oil on the low C and C# to get them to work properly as well. Forget about oiling the bore, it’s the pads that need oiling. Might not work on stuffed pads though? And certainly I need to choose the right sort of oil and clean them now and then.

Cheers
Graeme

30

I’m with the oilers, it also makes the key quieter, Chris Wilkes advised me to use a touch of oil, the notes sound fine without, but much easier and more positive with.
Don’t over do it tho or yer key will go down and not come up again!

31

Well… I can see that there are different opinions on the lower keys. Thank you all for your advice and thanks to those who PM(ed) me. I think I just stick with the Boehm for the moment, try out more simple system flutes and keep my eyes opened. (I want an 8key to play some classical on it as well as ITM).