Probably done before … except this is a very specific example, I think …
My embouchure continues to develop, and I’m quite happy with my progress and tone these days (nice and fruity) on most notes, including down to the low D (although I do sometimes miss that one). But it takes me about 10 minutes to even find the low C. C# isn’t too bad. But I want to be able to play right down to C, and it just ain’t working at the moment. Lovely tone when I eventually find it (I’m lucky with my flute ) but it takes too long to find. I’m pretty sure the problem is not with the flute or with my fingers. It seems to require a very specific embouchure - or something …
Hi, relentless experimentation! (with lips, positioning below the lips, degree of hole coverage, angle of head, rotation of head and anything else you can conceive). Take only the most general advice on this to heart but try all suggestions. People often make most progress by focussing on particular problems but my general advice is not to get too freaked out on making changes geared towards improving the low notes; make sure everything is improving and to a good extent, they will look after themselves.
have a double check of the low c# & c keys, that are probably pewter pluged.
since really few people use lowest notes nowdays there is a bit less attention to them. I had a good benefit spinning the plug to a more confortable position.
for my embouchure I don’t use to change anything from my lowD one, just open the throat as much as possible and control the diaphragm.
Jim, thanks for that encouragement. And things are generally getting a lot better. I’m just frustrated with this one thing - I keep wanting to play a C, and then I just get the sound of air, not a note. So I stop for 10 minutes until I get the note. Ho hum. I’ll try and be more patient. [chafe chafe]
And Radcliffe - yep, they sure are pewter plugs - pewter plug on the Eb key as well. “Just open the throat … and control the diaphragm.” OK … I’ll do my best. Until I started this flute business a year and a bit ago, I didn’t even realise there was this great big muscle down there that could be controlled … Diaphragm support - that’s probably what I need. I seem to be getting that for the top notes now, and it’s making a huge difference … but I need it for the bottom notes as well, I guess?
You can try a drop of non-drying mineral oil on the plugs for improved sealing. It also makes their operation quieter. It has to be wiped off and replaced/refreshed regularly, though. And most of the time the plugs don’t need that type of attention, but some benefit from it. Trying is free, so go for it.
Try this. Close both C and C# plugs and put a drop or two of a reasonably thick oil on each (motor oil is good, but preferably fresh, not off the dipstick!). Now open and close the keys a few times to induce the oil to run around the interface between plug and seat (or help it along with a toothpick. Good to discard the toothpick rather than put it back in the toothpick holder!). Now try the low C# and C.
If you find it helpful, you may want to carry a small phial of oil, and a toothpick, to renew it as needed. Whale oil is good too, but has become unfashionable. And you need a fairly large toothpick for an adult humpback.
Also, if your key touches are interlocked, as they usually are on English flutes, don’t rely on it. Press the junction of the keys, rather than the C touch.
I’ll try the oil later. Would 3-in-1 work? As for the interlocked keys - you should see the way these particular ones work, Terry. Magic, they are. If you press down just on the C key, there is absolutely no play whatsoever, and then pressing down on the C# key has no additional effect. I reckon they’re about as good as it’s possible to get.
Still, I’ll try the whale oil. Killing 'em’s going to legal again soon apparently.
Well, I use a mineral oil for oiling the bore of my workhorse flute…and I’m fine with that. But it is a matter of taste and believe. Anyway I think that a few drops of oil in the very end of the flute won’t do anything nasty to it.
Suck test that foot joint before oiling anything, and if there’s any give, as Radcliffe said, rotate the plugs a bit and try again… If you’re going to oil them, I’d suggest getting some Key Oil from a music shop, or using sewing-machine oil. Mine work fine without, though. I actually doubt it is embouchure… From experience I’d suggest experimenting with minute rotational adjustment of the foot-joint to find just exactly the right position for your little finger to activate the touches… and also look at your posture and how you go for those keys - you may be making some excessive or ill-aimed movement to actuate the keys with your little finger that upsets your finger-seal on the open tone-holes. That is more likely than embouchure problems, especially once flute structural problems are definitely eliminated. I know our hands are different, but when I pick up your flutes, as you know, I have to adjust various aspects of the set-up - and have wondered, looking at you when you play, whether you are setting up optimally for your own hands…
After checking the plugs seal, try this: set up the flute as you currently usually do, get in front of a mirror (your bathroom one should do) and set yourself up in playing posture. Play a good low D and then try simply shutting the C# key with as little hand shift as possible… if you get a good note, practice alternating C#-D. Watch! Now do the same with C nat. Adjust the joint position if you think that is indicated (some compromise may be necessary as you have to keep the Eb touch comfortably accessible too…) or even just experiment with rolling it in or out a millimetre at a time. If you’re making progress, move on to playing sequences through the bottom 4 notes (Eb, D, C#, C). Keep watching and trying for good 'ol relaxed control and smooth, not snatchy motion.
Cent 1: Turns out that any leaking key, not just the bottom ones, may influence your lower notes, while having virtually no effect on higher notes. Has of course to do with nodes and with cent 2:
Cent 2: The lower the note, the less air it takes to overblow it. So the low C is the most sensitive note on your instrument (also to leaks). It should require just a sigh to activate it. You can try to work your way down from D, perfecting the C# before descending to the C.
And now for the good news: as long as you don’t master it, but, frustratedly, keep trying, you’ll get as high as a pie in the sky
I’ll do the suck test in about half an hour when I get home.
Ah. More mirror practice. I’ve been looking for a cheval type mirror thing in antique shops, as I would rather be practising without the pyschological advantage of bathroom acoustics. Haven’t found one yet.
I think you have the foot joint more towards “in line” than I do, Jem, but I think you’ve got a much longer little finger, and I just can’t reach the C/C# keys if I do that.
More mirror observation and analysis, in this case… acoustics less relevant; and yes, I wasn’t saying you need to put it where I put it… but I do wonder if you have it right for you - you need it (so far as feasible allowing for the rest of the hand doing its jobs and for accessing the Eb) where the right part of the little finger can fall onto the Cnat without “reaching”, but without having to draw it back significantly to actuate the C# touch alone - too much of either motion and you risk leaks from higher fingers. That “relaxed fluidity of controlled motion” thing also pertains - stiff little fingers just won’t do!
'Sides, I seem to recall you having “come around” somewhat towards my positioning of the long F… ;-D
It doesn’t matter where it is turned to, it matters that YOU can reach it (without dislodging any of the first three fingers)
you could also rubber band the keys closed for a bit. If you can hit C then you know yer loosing 1 or more of the first 3. (you could stick a bit of plastic wrap under the pewter to stop a small leak)
not to imply ya care…
The 2nd joint (from the nail end) of mine no longer straightens out past 90 degrees. I can reach the Boehm but not the 8 key.
Haven’t got round to your rubber band test, Denny, largely because Jem sems to have hit it square on the head. Part of me’s happy, and part of me is now a bit concerned for poor ol’ Rolly. All three pewter plugs are definitely leaking, per the suck test. I’ve put some bore oil on them, and they’re 100% better … but still not right. So I need to get them fixed.
How far I turn it? Well, maybe you’ve got a point, Jem, and maybe not … What I do think was happening, after a bit of analysis etc, is that the pewter plugs were leaking AND I was compensating (or trying to) by over-working my fingers. The notes are - for the very short term, while this oil lasts - coming out most of the time now.
Now, two other questions arise:
I know, looking back that I could play those low notes much better once the flute had warmed up, and better on some days than on others. Are those pewter plugs susceptible to changes in temperature/humidity etc? and
I’ve always had trouble on this flute with what I call the middle D. D one octave up, in other words. Could this be due to a leaky Eb pewter plug, and not to my crap fingering, as I had previously thought?
) but it takes too long to find. I’m pretty sure the problem is not with the flute or with my fingers. It seems to require a very specific embouchure - or something …
