i just acquired a D/C susato kildare set of whistles. i love the sound. but, i’ve noticed something. when playing the song “crested hens.” the B part begins… ef || gB Bg gB | =c4ef | gf ag fe | ^d2e2 f2 |, and the susato simply does not like the jump from the B back up to the g. it wants a lot of air (more than any other whistle i have) to make a clean jump. i can the the jump with less air if i tongue the note or tap into it, but i usually play it without the articulation at that point.
while playing and getting used to the susato, i’ve noticed that it seems to take a lot more air to jump octaves. is this higher back pressure, and “more air to jump” requirement just a characteristic of the susato’s?
What you observe fits my experience with them. They’re not meant to be played delicately, but very enthusiastically. If you’re concerned about neighbors or sleeping kids, a Susato is not what you want. That said, I’ve never found them difficult whistles to play, just different from many others.
i can agree with that… i did the O-ring tweak (thank you, MT) but what i can see already is:
susatos like a LOT of air. if i play the susato like any other whistle i have, it just does NOT play that phrase in Hens… but if i give it a lot of air, it plays it no problem! the dixon trad, dixon poly’s, feadog all play with a lot less air… and seem to kick up octaves easier… but none have the volume of the susato from what i can tell so far…
but as always… i’m still learning and really don’t know much of anything… only been playing for about a year.
More specifically, they like a lot of air velocity in the upper register. But that doesn’t have to mean a lot of air volume.
Try this: Assuming you’re playing properly with the whistle just touching the outside of your lips, narrow your embouchure way down by “puckering up” as if you’re going to whistle to your dog (or kiss your dog!). Think “Oooooooo” with a very small opening. Blow a little harder to compensate for the narrow opening. Then as you do the B->g transition, give a little push with your diaphragm. That should let you hit the high note without tonguing.
The Susato has a large windway. And a lot of the problems of loudness and hard transitions that people experience can be cured by tightening the embouchure. It’s what the Susato wants.
FWIW, I’d probably tongue or articulate that high g anyway |(gBB) (ggB|=c4) ef| to bring out the polyrhythmic phrasing.
Playing a Susato well is all about air control, and realizing that there is a lot more you can do with your air besides just “blow harder” and “blow softer.”
I find my Susato to actually require the least amount of air of all my whistles. It was an utter blessing when I first started out, because on my Sweetone (yes, the measly little Sweetone) I found myself running out of air constantly when trying to learn tunes. The Susato, though, I could go on and on and on because it requires significantly less air volume.
I never hit the high register much on the Susato when starting out and I haven’t tried it a whole lot lately (I’ve gone back to the Sweetone), but tomorrow when the girls aren’t sleeping I’ll give it a go, see how tricky I find it.
i appreciate the input. as i have said before, i’ve only been at this about a year, and the flute before that. i am familiar with embouchure, at least to the extent that i am aware there is more than "blow harder, " or “blow softer.” but… again… i ain’t no expert.
i don’t know enough to say whether or not MT has hit it on the head. it may be a possibility. and i understand that it is next to impossible to troubleshoot a whistle that is not in front of you. i know that i cannot fix a guitar that across the country, but i can fix it if it is in my shop. that said, i am willing to mail this whistle set to somebody who really knows susatos so the whistles can be “test driven” by an expert player. if the whistle presents no problems for the expert, then it’s obviously all me (i’m guessing it’ll be all me, but i figure it can’t hurt to try this.)
Ha! You’re more than welcome to disagree with me! From the sound of it, you’ve much more experience on a wind instrument than I do!
I haven’t even been whistling for a year yet, nor have I ever played a wind instrument prior to the whistle. I’m poking about a bit with a fife now and I can’t for the life of me get the embouchure down! I can only relate my own personal experience with the whistles I own, all of which are dirt cheap whistles. This is why I didn’t offer to test your whistle for you – because I am by no means an expert, I’m barely even a beginner.
One piece of advice that seems to go around a lot here is this: if you find a particular whistle to be troublesome, then put it down and use a different one for a while. Come back to the problem when you have more experience, and chances are you’ll find it to be much easier.
protean, with the fife and the flute, embouchure is everything! particularly with the fife in the third register ! i have a 1950’s T.D. O’Connor fife that absolutely does not tolerate a weak or poor embouchure. have fun with your fifing.
so far, i’ve found my dixon trad to be the easiest to play, followed very closely by my feadog. i get great sound and results from both. the dixon poly’s are not too far behind.
as an update to the thread… i sent an e-mail to susato to seek their input on this. i sent the e-mail because i remember reading in one of the threads on here (maybe the O-ring tweak thread… can’t say for sure), one post had indicated that sometimes the mouthpieces and bodies don’t work or play well together, and that sometimes switching out the heads cured the problems… i figured it couldn’t hurt to ask Susato if they have any ideas. worst case: they tell what we all already know… i’m a dummy… best case: they have an answer.
be well, all,
jim
just spoke with Susato on the phone… they have asked me to send the set to them so they can check it out. if it is the head, it will be replaced. if not… well, i guess it’s back to the woodshed for me.
Glad Susato is willing to help you out! Great for a company to really support their product like that. Re: the fife, I think I may table that for now. I’ll likely poke at it a bit from time to time, but methinks that I should perhaps try something a bit easier to get started on.
I agree that the Susato wants quite a bit of air pressure (speed) for the high g and above—that’s characteristic for them and the reason they can be challenging for beginners. Don’t agree on tonguing that g, though, but what do I know.
bloomfield, thank you.
a question comes to mind (not just for bloomfield)… i am hearing consistently from multiple sources that the susato likes AIR! (be it volume, velocity or both) particularly in the upper half of the 2nd octave… the question is this… Are there other brands/makes of whistles out there that demand as much air as the susato? seems that many whistles play throughout their range with a much lower air requirement. why is that?
susato’s website says the kildare S and VS series are great beginner’s whistles… but that’s not what i’m hearing/reading here… consistently. so, i guess that kinda leaves me in a “which is it?” situation.
(fwiw, i don’t tongue the high g either. i posted a youtube a while back of crested hens on a clarke meg if you want to hear 1) some really bad whistling and 2) how i play that phrase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTL4Rs9KoR4 )
having just visted your website, ferrets and all, your $.02 goes a long way with me. i will quietly return to my stool and face the corner. sorry to have given even the hint of doubting you.
Seriously, just because I have a website and own several whistles and flutes doesn’t make me any kind of authority. There are folks here who have played for much longer than I have, and who can play circles around me without even trying. There are folks here with a deep understanding of the intricacies of Irish music which I’ll never be able to approach.
actually, i’m not poking fun at you. i listened to the clips of your playing. i listened to you playing a Susato. I read the “dreaded beast” thread over and over. i read most of the information you have on the website… and while there may be many, according to you, who are light years ahead of you in ITM… you, sir, are light years ahead of me. i meant what i said with all sincerity. i am sorry i doubted your suggestions and advice.
Abe Lincoln is credited with saying, “It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.” Sadly, i spoke up and removed all doubt.
That said, I’ve never found them difficult whistles to play, just different from many others.
! i have a 1950’s T.D. O’Connor fife that absolutely does not tolerate a weak or poor embouchure. have fun with your fifing.