In my honest opinion anyway. I had a chance to play one of Pat’s poly chanters last night and it was an absolute dream! This is what the penny chanter aspires for and will never be. This chanter will very likely be one to look into for loaner sets in our group. The reed I played last night was about as perfect in both intonation and playability as they come. Mellow sound, quick and responsive, and a solid tone up to third octave D consistantly! - practically effortless.
It appears as though Pat has taken a chanter and made a master mold from which he is able to inject the plastic and come up with an exact replica every time. The chanters do include key blocks, though Pat doesn’t offer any keys as an option. Anyone know of a maker who might be willing to add a key or three or four to a poly chanter? I can’t imagine it would be impossibly difficult to do.
I would certainly like to see more of Patrick’s work, but first impressions seem to confirm what others have been saying for a while now. VERY nice stuff.
My latest theory on humidity and the lack thereof out here?
Is simply put - I don’t think it has NEARLY as much sway as I was once lead to believe.
YES, it does change the playing characteristics of a given reed.
YES, it can make a reed sound better or worse.
NO, I don’t think it is impossible or even all that difficult to make a reed that will play extremely well out here.
Of all the reeds I have heard played, the ones that sounded the very best all seem to come from New England: Boston, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont. Climate there is very different, yet the skill of the reedmakers must be taken into account.
As for the key issue, I would love to ask Pat to do it, but from what I understand, he doesn’t work with keys at all. Aren’t there a bunch of makers out there all too happy to “improve” on old classic chanters? If these folks are willing to re-bore sticks and alter drones and regs and all that, surely there has to be SOMEONE who would be willing to add a few keys to a chanter…Pat’s come molded with the blocks already in place. I would think that all you’d need to do would be bore the tone holes, fashion the armature and bad, cut the groove and drill the pivot hole on the block, throw it together and you’d have it. But then, I don’t make pipes, so I don’t know.
Drilling holes for the keys is what would scare off most other makers. As soon as you drill the holes, you start affecting the tuning of everything else. Then you might be forced into redesigning the reed. These little changes all add up, and if the final product isn’t as good as the original, the customer will rise up in righteous indignation.
I think Kevin is bang on accurate here. Building key mounts without accounting for the additional tone holes in the design doesn’t make any sense.
Most makers are reluctant to work on other living maker’s work. Thus, it is prudent to recommend that one go back to the item’s maker. Or order the whole works from someone in the business of delivering the whole works.
Plastic machines very differently than wood, and Patrick’s chanters are a bit shorter than most D sticks. I think most other makers would be reluctant to do R&D on a customer’s chanter.
The Penny chanter C-nat key kit would work nicely IF you could figure out the right place to drill the hole.
Is he really injection molding them? That would be really cool. I’ve though about that, but couldn’t calculate the percent shrinkage one would experience once the bore shape (mandrel) was pulled out. Also I didn’t think I could ever manage to get the thing to release once the resin set (I was thinking fiberglass resin at the time, which has some obvious problems) For people interested in that, there was IPC article where fiberglass resin was used.
I wonder how Patrick makes it work?
On his website he claims to be using polymer resin which doesn’t really tell me what it is. Anyone know?
As for the instrument. Brian, You seem to be pretty picky about intonation and it sounds like you liked the one you played. Could you give us a more detailed review? I am curious if you could describe your impression of the following typical “intonation trouble spots”. Only if you are comfortable describing this from memory!
I have no reason to believe Patrick’s chanters have any of these problems, but it is what I look for in a well-behaved instrument/reed combination.
Ease of Hard D
Does it blast into the upper “high a” harmonic accidentally
Any autocraning?
Are E and e an octave apart or is that interval short? In other words is E sharp to bring a flat “e” to pitch and or do you have to push “e” into place. (I realize there are those that think having to really push an “e” in to place is acceptable)
Is F# flat of the instrument as a whole. Or does f# appear to be sharp?
Is octave “b” sharp of the instrument?
Does back D act well under the same pressure as high “b”. Or do you have to back off more than a tiny bit?
I don’t think Patrick is injection-molding, the start-up costs for tooling and machinery are too high. I think (this is speculation on my part, based on the “Piper’s Cut” chanters I’ve seen) that he’s casting resin using a combination of hard and soft tooling (hard mandrel for the bore, silicone or similar soft mold for the outside. I’d imagine he’s using a vacuum chamber to remove any bubbles. No clue what the composition of the resin is (seems to work well though).
I must admit I’ve never spoken to Pat yet to ask some more of the details about his chanters construction. Indeed, last night was the first time I had ever played/seen one - apart from his website. There were several of us playing last night (including three pipers) but I’ll give you my impressions:
In session playing, the chanter/reed was very quick and snappy. It went where you wanted it to go and stayed there. No supprises. It’s current owner seems to like a softer/quieter reed so the occasional autocran on bottom D was heard, though I found it quickly and easily cured with slight changes in my playing pressure.
I played a couple of slow solo airs and to my ear it sounded perfect. Back D has probably been my biggest trouble note on my Daye chanter. Not a single problem on Pat’s stick. Even with slight changes in pressure while holding the note, the intonation of the note was barely percieved to change. The E’s both sounded well in tune with the rest of the chanter though I didn’t have an opportunity to check it all against a tuner.
It sounded about as perfect as I could wish for against a fiddle, guitar and mandolin players who are seriously completely helpless without their perfect little electro-tuners. :roll: If anyone else either owns, or has a chance to play one of Pat’s chanters, I’d be interested to know if you have any more insight into it’s construction.
I’m not aware of who’s chanter Pat used for the initial molds, but again, from what I was told, the design was intended to be upgradeable with keys, and hence the blocks that are molded with the chanter - just as the original had. This is why I asked if anyone knew of a maker willing to add keys. I have had a couple of private responses that have been very helpful in this regard. Thanks to those who took the time.
Oddly enough, there are several of those that are very popular too. In a couple of instances, the cases have to be shaped by firing a conventional round in the oversized chamber which results in the brass being blasted open to expand and shape itself to the actual finished size in something of an auto-conversion of commercially available ammo.
But odds are, the chanter was a knock-off of a chanter that had blocks on it and he just duplicated the existing object exactly as it existed simply because it was easiest.
From what I understand, Pat could have used ANY chanter design he wished for this molding, and instead of just creating a ‘knock off’ as you say he researched and found a design that was particularly well in tune and had some very smooth playing characteristics. It may have even been one he designed himself some time back - I don’t know enough to say for certain.
But for a poly chanter that costs $275 and which you can have in your hands in 2-3 months, this one sounded every bit as good as any of the Rogge, Quinn, Ginsburg, Gallagher or Lynch set I’ve ever heard or played. No, it isn’t a standard wooden chanter with all the bells and whistles, but for what it is, it’s amazing!
guess I should have qualitifed that with: It sounds every bit as good as any of those makers sets that I’ve heard or played in the US, both on the east cost and especially here in the Rockys. And so far as I know, he doesn’t have plans to work with drones - at least not in the near future. Have you heard something about his plans that I have not?
I emphatically concur with Brian’s impression of the Pat Murray plasto chanter. I was one of the "three pipers’ (or is three stooges? nuck, nuck, nuck ) who played on it. It had a nice overall ‘sweet’ quality (with a slight hint of oak, and not too much tannin ). I would like to see how it holds up to the spilt Guiness test.
Bri, FYI I’m ordering one, and I’m going to install my own Cnat key. So I’ll be the guinea pig. The worst that can happen is that I have to bondo the hole up if I fail!
(makes you wonder at all those hard to play chanters that causes so much piper’s despair)
) who played on it. It had a nice overall ‘sweet’ quality (with a slight hint of oak, and not too much tannin