This is only semi on topic…but it’s something I’m somewhat curious about and wondering if I’m the only one who’s had this happen.
When I was younger, I wanted to play the flute and tried a standard headjoint for a modern classical flute. I wasn’t able to make a sound and ended up as a clarinet player. I had to take flute as a tech instrument in college (oh gosh, about 10 years ago now) and it took me nearly a month to even make a sound on it. I practiced all semester and by the end, I could play maybe an octave and it sounded HORRIBLE (I passed the class as a pity case). I was told, all along, that I’d never be a flute player…that my mouth just wasn’t set up right for it. For the past 10 years, I’ve occasionally tried playing people’s flutes and I always make a wispy barely there sound.
So along comes Irish music…and at a session last November, someone talked me into trying to make a sound on his Irish flute (wood, had maybe 6 keys on it)…I finally did. And shock…I made a decent sound. Now I have an Alan Mount flute that I’m working on and I’m actually getting better, producing a fairly decent sound that doesn’t have a TON of air in it.
So do I just have a block when it comes to the standard classical flute or is there really such a huge difference in embouchure that it could make one possible and one not?
–you can’t judge how good a flute player someone will be by their first attempts at making a sound on the headjoint, and
–almost anyone who doesn’t have a structural problem with their face or lips can learn to make a good sound on flute.
I remember when I was going through middle school and first hit band, they were telling kids with big lips that they couldn’t play flute. I didn’t like that then, and it still irks me to remember it.
I think I mentioned once that I didn’t play
flute as a youngster because my
orthodontist said it would shorten
my upper lip. Waited till I was 60
to start, I’m too ugly now
to care.
There’s a special ring in the nether world
reserved for orthodontists.
I’ve heard it said that it’s harder
to get a sound out of an irish flute
than the classical flute. So there!
You’re a genuis! Best
Crysania, I’ve never gotten a sound out of a silver flute, and I’ve never had a problem with anything else, including little bamboo flutes I used to make.
James, what about Hubert Laws? Did someone tell him he’d never play a flute? They told Charlie Parker that his fingers were too short to play the sax, and they told John Coltrane his were too long. I think “they” don’t know as much as they think.
Somehow that wouldn’t surprise me…it was supposed to be harder to get noise out of a piccolo than a classical flute…and I got a sound out of the picc long before I got sound out of a flute. I definitely wouldn’t call me a genius! Maybe my mouth is just set up better for a flute without a lip plate, etc. Who knows? lol
Some Cool Cat Jazz Flutists (in no particular order);
Roland Kirk
Eric Dolphy
Sam Most
James Moody
Yusef Lateef
Sam Rivers
Julius Hemphill
Oliver Lake
James Newton
As far as I know, nobody ever told Hubert Laws he’d never play because of his large lips.
The man does have some big lips…and he is also, as mentioned, one of the very best jazz flutists, absolutely a master of his art.
There is no limit to the number of voices in which he can make a flute speak, he can mimic trumpet, oboe, soprano sax, the human voice, whistling, and any number of other sounds on his flute.
I don’t find the mechanics of different embouchure cuts or styles all that different, ultimately, although obviously they’re designed to sound differently once you can get a sound from them and alter your embouchure appropriately.
My first experience on a flute (a cheap Bundy student flute) was a disaster; I was the only one that couldn’t get it to sound. Now, regardless of size or shape, it’s more a matter of focusing on how to get the best sound from it, rather than any sound, so I, too, wouldn’t put much stock in what you used to not be able to do; whatever it was that prevented you from playing before seems to have passed. Work on a wooden flute, then go back - you’ll be surprised how much easier a Boehm is.
James – I’m amazed that old wives’ tale was/is still around when you learned flute (the thick lips thing); I laughed uproariously when I read Quantz insisting the same thing, but I forgave him as an overly pompous, and quite dead, piece of work. Knew a thing or two, he did, but that wasn’t one of them…
Gordon
Well, hopefully the Myth of Thick Lips has died off since; I started playing flute at age 11 and am 38 now, so that puts it back a ways.
The only flute of mine that requires a markedly different embouchure is my German 8-key.
The rest, the Hamilton, the M&E flutes, the Seery, even the Sweet Baroque, and the Boehm system Gemeinhardt can be all played with a pretty similar approach as to embouchure, on the basic level anyway. There are things each one does better than the others; then there is the Hamilton, which is pretty much the High King of Flutes as far as I’m concerned.
Interestingly, I’ve been playing my German flute more than my Hamilton lately; the Hammy certainly is the better flute, but there’s something about the antique that just makes it worth the extra effort. Other than ease-of-play (on the Hammy), I still don’t approach the embouchures all that differently. I spend the most time on my baroque, and find that the smaller-holed tight focus I use on that instrument helps with the big embouchured Pratten, German and Boehm flute alike.
Hmm.. 38… I think I picked up my first wooden flute around that age..
Gordon
I gotta jump in here to … boehm system flutes drive me crazy - I can get sound, but it is hissy, or shrill. Put me on wood, with a tight embouchure and out comes a clear note.
Personally, I think I naturally foucs the air too much for a ‘band’ style flute, but when I hit the smaller embouchure one wood the size of air stream is correct. Just guessing, since I’ve always played by ear, and never bothered with a lesson, but this has been consistant for over 20 years, so there has to be something going on.
Could chimney depth be a differentiator, too? I don’t have my Boehm in front of me, but I feel quite certain it has tons more chimney than la Hammy, which has very little. If nothing else, it would seem the raised lip plate on a Boehm would have to add depth. Thus, more of a surface or edge or “wall” to push your airstream against. And thus, more ease in the low register for frowning-embouchure folks, but maybe more difficulty for softer-embouchure types. In fact, the Hammy’s shallow chimney is much less forgiving than my Ormiston’s – i.e., I have to be way more conservative when putting an edge on my low notes, whereas with the Ormiston’s deeper-cut chimney I just honk merrily away, making super-edgy bottom notes the same as on my Boehm.
I seriously doubt that; I really only spend time with conical bore wooden flutes these days, “Irish” types, and an even smaller, round-holed baroque. My tone playing on a Boehm, however, when I pick one up, is greatly improved by my comfort (now) with a smaller, more focused embouchure than it ever was prior to wooden flutes.
I think the problem you’re experiencing is, in fact, caused by the opposite of what you say; you are letting too much air escape from the Boehm system embouchure, missing the chimney more than shooting down into it. Assuming you don’t have pad leaks on your silver flute – another, very obvious, reason for hiss and poor tone – then you are probably not playing tight enough, ie, not focusing your airstream into the silver properly. Otherwise, you would not have resulting hiss.
I’m not a maker, so I have no measurements at hand, but the Pratten flutes on which Hammy based his flute has a much shallower embouchure chimney than, say a Rudall, and, I expect, a Boehm. Hammy’s flutes, unlike some “Pratten” hybrids, is much closer to the original conception.
Let me add, before the more knowledgeable jump in, that so-called Rudalls (so-called, because they indicate a maker more than a specific flute design) – and Boehm systems, for that matter – also vary alot in embouchure design, whereas a ‘Pratten’ is a more specific flute design. Which all means that in other flutes, embouchure measurements will vary, flute to flute, head-design to head-design, but, overall, your observation for the Hammy is right: Pratten types have shallower chimneys.
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