I haven’t been playing for very long and only recently have I been able to get my embouchure under some control.
Over the years I have played around on various flutes, not seriously, and I have always had the trouble of not being able to keep the flutes from playing sharp, especially in the second octave. Recently, as my embouchure has gotten better I found that if I play my Hamilton flute in a “fluty” breathy way I lose some of the focus in the lower octave but I also find that it is more difficult to keep the flute in tune that way.
However, if I play with a focused stream of air straight down in to the flute to get a nice, reedy tone the flute is much easier to keep in tune. That way I only have to just barely direct the stream of air out to hit the higher octave which is then, perfectly in tune with the lower octave (the needle on my tuner will hardly move at all between octaves). This is easier said than done but when I do it correctly, the tuning is spot on.
My question is: Are there wooden flute makers that build their flutes to be played only with a reedy, dark tone; flutes that will be out of tune if played in a lighter, softer way and other wooden flute makers that strive to do the opposite? I know that many flute makers have gone beyond copying famous, old flutes and have perfected their own flutes. I thought that maybe these flutes were designed to be played in a very specific way.
Hi Bob,
Good question! Don’t be surprised if you get a ton of conflicting answers with heavy disclaimers! First, yes, different flutes have different tonal inclinations, and different flute makers tend to aim for different qualities of tone and response. Find a copy of Ardal Powell’s book The Flute, and you’ll see that that’s been the case for at least as long as people have been building, playing, and writing about flutes.
Granting all that, any good flute should be capable of producing a range of tone colors in tune across a range of volumes. Many Irish flute players are self taught, and our collective emphasis on low-end volume sometimes leads to neglect in developing a sweet high end and general control in playing softly. In contrast, among classical flutists, the ability to play in tune and softly near the top of the range is one of the marks of a master.
If you tend to blow sharp on the high end, it might be that you are relying too much on air volume to jump octaves. Try tightening your embouchure more and actually playing the high notes at lower volume than you play the low notes. Hope this helps!
Bill
Others may give you a more informed answer, and I’ll leave design matters to the makers here.
My two bits:
I suspect that most of what you are describing as “breathy” may equate with “wasted breath”.
It’s not a bad quality, tonewise, just different.
But it’s inefficient. I like to aim for a more focused, harder-edged sound most of the time, personally.
Some days I do that immediately; other days I have to really work at it.
Over time, more often the former.
If I sound “breathy”, it means some of the air is not going into producing tone.
If you are going sharp consistently in the second register, I suspect this is happening…
You are blowing harder in the first register because your focus isn’t quite optimal. To compensate you see.
So when you go to the second register, the tone production is (paradoxically) easier and the extra pressure drives you way sharp of where you’d like to be.
I find that, flute design aside, if my focus is good I don’t have to back off very much in the second register to stay in tune.
Now all this is aside from something else folks might call “breathy”.
Some flutes are designed to be driven very hard in the lower part of the lower register.
When all stars are aligned and you’re on your game, you get this fantastic sound tinged with upper harmonics.
Sometimes it seems almost between the first register note and its first harmonic in quality.
But it “cuts” through the mix of instruments, carries, very well.
If you don’t drive it hard, it’s way flat.
Now some might call those upper harmonics a breathy quality. I don’t hear it that way.
Anyway…
If you tend to blow sharp on the high end, it might be that you are relying too much on air volume to jump octaves. Try tightening your embouchure more and actually playing the high notes at lower volume than you play the low notes. Hope this helps!
Bill
Thanks Bill, I have been working with that and it does help keep me from going sharp but only sometimes. It seems like a patch to a problem that is better solved by playing the flute the way it wants to be played which is what prompted me to start this thread.
I suspect that most of what you are describing as “breathy” may equate with “wasted breath”.
If you don’t drive it hard, it’s way flat.
Yes, absolutely when I play my forbes flute. The forbes will play in tune if i keep my tone soft and breathy and way flat if i play with a focused stream, no aparent wasted breath, right down into the flute unless i drive it really hard. So i can play the forbes soft or reedy and loud and remain in tune for both.
My hamilton on the other hand is always sharp when i play it except when i use a focused stream of air which gives a reedy tone in the lower register. and it never plays flat this way, even if i don’t drive it hard.
Anyhow, i defer to those more experienced than myself. I am actually interested in how flutes are being made today and if they are designed to be most in tune when played to have a certian tone. I already know my playing is sub par
I think it’s fair to say, Monkeymonk, that flutes are being made both ways, with important consequences. A flute that is fully in tune can be played either sweetly (across the hole) or reedily (down the hole) without going out of tune. A flute that follows the older tuning has to be played reedily (down the hole) or it will be out of tune.
It’s good to keep in mind the physics of what happens here. Blowing down the hole doesn’t “lip up” the flat bottom notes, it shifts most of the energy from the flat fundamental into the in-tune harmonics. So it doesn’t matter if the fundamental notes are flat, you won’t hear them anyway. A little bit of magic in the brain reconstitutes the missing fundamental. You can prove this to yourself by filtering the fundamental out of a square wave using software like Audacity - even with the fundamental completely gone, you can still “hear” it.
What’s not clear yet is whether there are any benefits to Irish flute players (and maybe therefore to other flute players?) in having flutes with flat fundamentals. Perhaps it could be argued that forcing you to play reedily is a good enough advantage? But supposing not everybody wants to or is capable of playing that reedily? Some interesting work still needed here!
"A flute that follows the older tuning has to be played reedily (down the hole) or it will be out of tune. " Terry McGee.
I take it then that this applies to 20th century Rudalls? I have an incoming Rudall Carte, no 7103, I guess made between May-August 1892 as Rudall Carte no. 7107 was made 10th August, 1892. I have no experience of playing old flutes so this will be interesting
This is from Jem’s very recent commercial post concerning his piccolos, which appears below on the flute board:
‘The instrument has been designed to be played with an “Irish” style of blowing (more covered & downwards), so if you use a modern classical French-school flute embouchure (open/across) you will probably be sharp to begin with. Find the strongest, richest sound you can in the bottom octave & you should be near enough in tune at A=440Hz. It is up to you, the player, to play in tune with other instruments - the piccolo is as in tune with itself (to Equal Temperament) as is possible in such things!’
I’m biased because I admire his playing so , but … Bill gives a very good answer.
I think the short of it is that no matter what kind of tone your flute’s designed to deliver, you can put your face through all kinds of contortions but you won’t get that tone if you don’t fill the flute. Some flutes don’t take as much air/pressure to fill, others take quite a bit.
A breathy, weak tone is to me an instant sign of a flute that’s not being filled with air, and usually of someone who’s breathing from the upper chest. Intonation is a related but different matter and you can be flat or sharp depending on your special combination of embouchure + “not topping up” the flute. You can also blow the flute out of tune by OVERFILLING, so that’s something to watch out for, too. (Alas, I know lots about this.)
At the end of the day, the trick is learning how fill that pipe AND control the flow, which is what your embouchure’s for (OK, your diaphragm too but that’s a huge topic on its own and a very good reason to get the book Bill recommends). But basically, the flute’s the pipe, the embouchure’s the faucet and the diaphragm’s the hydraulic pressure (or maybe the water table – Bill could probably answer that better too. ), and getting the right combination takes a fair bit of tweaking.
Ah, this will be interesting. Do you happen to know its C#-D# length yet?
When I said “the older tuning” above, I was thinking more of first half 19th century, where most of our original flutes originate. But your incoming should be much shorter than them:
Just following the pink Rudall curve, compare the lengths of 1840 flutes and 1890. I’d expect your incoming flute to be just about right for modern pitch. If so, you should have the option of playing sweet or dark. But let’s find out!
Thanks Terry for the graph. The only measurements I have so far are:
Overall length 65cm, sounding length 56.5
David’s Rudall no. 7229 on Ebay plays fine at 440, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I’ll let you know measurements when the flute turns up sometime in October.
Well, it looks like this topic is winding it’s way to the bottom of the list so I’d like to thank everyone who responded especially Terry McGee with his great explanation + historic perspective and also Cathy Wilde for her advice.
Oh, I’ve been meaning to post … I suddenly remembered you saying you play a Hamilton. In my experience you TOTALLY need a focused embouchure for one of Hammy’s flutes – more so than for many other makes. So in answer to your question, yes, there are flutes that are meant to be played a certain way, and you’ve got one of them! Anyway, sounds like you’re on a good track so keep at it (without overdoing, of course), have fun, and don’t forget to breathe!
, but … Bill gives a very good answer.
), and getting the right combination takes a fair bit of tweaking.