I have a question. Do ornament stuff the same way on the fiddle as you do whistle? Cuts, rolls, etc.? On the penny whistle you cut with an A most of the time…This isn’t exactly practical on the fiddle…Also, if there are any books on how to ornament tunes on the fiddle please tell me. Good-bye!!
Brent
The introduction to Breandan Breathanach’s collection of dance music Ceol Rinnce na hEirreann provides a table with ornamentation for every note on a variety of instruments. These should be of help. (please note these appear only in vols. 1-3)
The same table also appears in Pat Mitchell’s ‘The Dance music of Willie Clancy’
I would not neccessrily agree with that cutting ‘with the A all the time’ by the way.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-11-13 09:13 ]
“A complete Guide to Learning The Irish Fiddle” by Paul McNevin (published by Waltons) gives good basic advice on ornamentation. There is an accompanying cd/tape too. And he also has a video, but I haven’t got that.
There’s also “The Irish Fiddle Book” by Matt Cranitich, also with a CD available, slightly more money.
Both are available through Hobgoblin Music.
Hi Brent
I’m curious. Are you asking for yourself, or for a violinist you know?
Yes, many of the ornaments used by fiddle players are direct equivalents of what is done on the whistle. Both cuts and rolls are very similar.
However, here’s a word of advice from a fiddle player who has taught many students to cut and roll - don’t try to learn it from a book. At least, not rolls. It’s practically impossible.
You can learn rolls perhaps with the combination of a book and many hours of listening to good fiddle players on record, but it’s hard. I know, that’s how I did it, and I don’t recommend the method.
If you can play rolls properly on the whistle - and it’s amazing how many people cannot - you may be able to transfer your knowledge onto the fiddle.
But the thing to do is to get a fiddler who knows what she or he is doing to show you.
That said, here are some tips. Most fiddlers use the third finger to cut notes that are played with the first or second fingers. Use the fourth finger to cut notes played with the third, obviously, and use the second or the third to cut notes played open strings.
If you’ve ever watched traditional fiddle players doing this, you’ll notice that most of them use a kind of “cat’s paw” motion to perform the cut - the curled finger almost plucks the string.
There are other ornaments used by fiddle players, one of the most common being the “treble” or fast bowed triplet, similar to triple-tongued trebles used by a minority of whistle players.
But as I say - if you try to follow what it says in a book, without seeing how a good player actually executes these ornaments physically, you’ll almost certainly get it “wrong” - and, free spirits please note, I use this word advisedly.
Best of luck
S
I agree with almost all that’s been said. BTW: the triple note ornamentation is the Donegal style (mimics the Highland pipes).
Anyway, I don’t try to duplicate the ornamentation I do on the whistle so much as I try to feel and hear what makes sense given the directio of the bow, where my hand is, where my head is (:-)), etc.
Many books videos exist to illustrate the basics, but as with whisltes, you really need to develop your own style.
StevieJ,
I am asking for myself…And now for another question (this is to anybody)…Who would you recommend listening to (to get ornamentation, that is)…And as for playing ornamentations right on the whistle, I have no idea whether I am or not. There aren’t many experienced (or of any level for that matter) players around here (whistle or fiddle) so I can’t have them demonsrated to me…Ok, this rambling is going nowhere so I’ll stop typing..Thanks! And good-bye!
Kevin Burke has a great video series which demonstrate rolls and their usage far better than any book can.While we are off topic here, is anyone dissatisfied with conventional systems of supporting his or her fiddle?Does anyone else experience neck and shoulder problems or is it just me…would a more comfortable system be accepted by the fiddle/violin community?Peace, Mike:)
Where would I get the Kevin Burke videos? Also, I just use a piece of foam rubber banded to the bottom of my fiddle…Not very stylish but it works!
Hey Brent ~ I like that idea of the foam rubber and yes, Mike R…I would welcome another way to hold the fiddle. Being a beginner…I have all kinds of problems with neck and shoulder. As for the rest of the stuff…it’s way over my head. Still looking for a teacher. Gm
Who would you recommend listening to (to get ornamentation, that is)…
Short answer: any and every good traditional fiddler whose recordings you can get your hands on! Preferably solo records. That gives you a choice of thousands!
You could do a lot worse than Kevin Burke’s videos. Although I don’t recommend listening to and copying only one player. You need to soak up the music from many sources.
As far as hearing ornamentation clearly goes, Matt Cranitch is a lovely player who is very clean and clear and doesn’t usually play too fast. He brought out some listening cassettes around the same time as his fiddle tutor - “Take a Bow” and “Give it Shtick”. These may be available on CD now.
Another very clean player is Paddy Glackin whose ornamentation is very crisp and well defined - although he often plays at warp factor 3.
Martin Hayes, on his early albums at least, plays a lot of stuff at medium and slow tempos, so that can be good.
James Kelly is great - very old, authentic-sounding style with great lift and energy.
There’s a man that lives in New York state (I thnk) who is a sublimely creative traditional fiddler who plays nice steady and very clean. His name is Willie Kelly and a CD of him and his flute-playing wife Siobhan is supposed to be coming out soon, if it hasn’t already. Should be great.
These are not necessarily my top-favourite fiddlers. I’m just trying to think of ones that might be easy on the ear when you first start. There are hundreds of others. Maybe other posters can make suggestions.
But the best thing is to try to find a local mentor. (Where exactly is Oklahoma? 
)
And don’t forget, ornamentation is only a small part of the traditional sound. A good rhythm and swing is far far far far more important than whether you can play rolls or not. Remember this piece of advice from a wise old man!
I would recommend the classic recording of Paddy Canny, P Joe Hayes and Peter O Loughlin to everybody to listen to, there’s a re-issue alltough that one is in the courts at the moment. Very few can improve on that recording.
Recently Ohio based Kevin Crehan released his An Bhabog sa Bhadog : Music from West Clare
quite possibly the very best CD I have heard in years. Beautiful, clear and subtle solo fiddling.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-11-14 06:32 ]
Hey Peter, I got that CD not long ago due to your recommendation. It was a stroke of luck that I managed to find it in my local Borders store. I think that CD sounds highly educational, and I’ve been listening to it many times to learn more about the traditional nuances.
You can tell that Martin Hayes adopts his father’s playing style quite a bit from listening to the CD. Its a good CD, but it’s extremely short, like 33 minutes.
Can’t believe it’s that short, two sides of an LP should be more thatn 33. Anyways, a lot of the fiddling you hear would be Paddy Canny, the first track is Canny with O Loughlin on the flute, that lovely curvy swinging music that seems to come at you in waves is Canny, P Joe was a bit less flamboyant. You should try to get the tape the two Hayes made before Martin got famous, The shores of Lough Graney, lovely rhythmic music, but I am not sure it’s still available.