OT - Someone asks "why learn Irish?"

On the Oideas Gael message board, someone posted:

why do irish school children have to learn irish in school this language is dead and the time spent learning the language could be spent doing something worthwhile

I was amused by this response:

interesting question. Here’s why:

1 - Because it’s a beautiful language.

2 - Because it’s our language.

3 - Because it ain’t dead yet.

4 - Because I read a Nuala O Faolain article a couple of years ago that that many of Ireland’s leading business people are fluent Irish speakers and that speaking Irish enhances a young person’s cultural self-esteem, so they are therefore more likely to succeed in life.

5 - Because it’s very nourishing food for the growing brain.

6 - Because they’ll have a rich sense of history, which is important for having a rich sense of self.

7 - So they’ll know the origins of local place-names.

8 - So they’ll be able to explain to non-Irish people exactly why we tend to say “I’m after talking to him” instead of “I’ve just talked to him.”

9 - So they’ll be able to understand and perhaps make alot of traditional music.

10- So they’ll know that Garda Siochana means Guards of the peace and not “shockin’ guards”.

11- So they’ll be able to speak to their distant Irish speaking ancestors when they get to heaven.

12- So they’ll be able to make lots of money teaching the language to earnest Americans.

13- So they can dazzle foreigners with the peculiarities of eclipsis, lenition and the genitive case and then make Irish seem even more difficult than it already is, therefore feel very brainy and have self-esteem boosted even furthur.

14- So they’ll be able to understand the cartoons on TG4.

15- So they’ll be trendy as Celtic Irishness is all the rage the world over these days.

16- So they’ll be able to have discussions with intensely serious Nordic intellectuals who speak near fluent Irish as a ninth language.

17- So if they ever become Mormons they’ll be able to carry out the posthumous baptisms of their distant Irish speaking ancestors in their native tongue.

18- If they ever become involved in crime aboad police there will have less chance of understanding them via bugging etc.

19- They’ll be able to read Beo.

20- They’ll learn to respect lesser spoken languages and perhaps also be more sensitive to other cultures than the monoglot speakers of the big “bulldoser languages.”

21- They’ll be able to experience the world more colourfully and variously than monoglots do.

22- Finally, it is a fact that knowing a second language makes learning other languages much easier.

Slán
Donal

Beth,

Very true,

It will not be a dieing language if more people speak it.

I like the part, so that they can make a living off us Americans wishing to learn the language. :slight_smile:

And plus, it is taught in the schools while the children are still young and can absorb it more easily.

IMHO… someday spanish will be taught to the elementary students as a second language in the U.S.

There’s a lot of good evidence that learning a second language by age six is key to both speaking that language fluently and learning other languages easily. By contrast, people who only learn one language by age six actually lose mental ability towards learning new languages. i.e. that part of the brain needs early exercise or its ability is lost permanently.

There are also studies about learning music and the arts being a good indicator of later academic success. The studies don’t seem to be as solid and obvious as the language studies but it seems to make sense.

How much of our children’s brains are we not developing in our quest to have academic/fiscal efficiency?

She forgot:

  • So that the americans will be able to impress Gaelic speaking women by speaking their language

Altough I don’t think Beth has been influenced by that one.

I live within the Cherokee Nation territory, and it is a similar situation. A language suppressed for many years in favor of English is now being much revived in the schools.

I believe that learning a language is not merely a way of learning to translate yourself to another tongue, but involves learning a different thought process. Language lends structure to our thoughts. Native English speakers, of whatever heritage, share a certain thought structure. So do native French speakers, et cetera. Thus, learning multiple languages can vastly enhance one’s mental and social outlook. And, in learning the language of one’s forebears, one is gaining a better understanding of one’s own culture, methinks.

The primary drawback of learning language in the schools is that it tends to say “this is right” and “that is wrong” thus encouraging an unnatural homogeneity of language. For example, native Cherokee speakers from Salina have been known to have difficulty communicating with native speakers from Tahlequah. Hopefully, those who learn the academic language will converse with the older people of their own county, and learn the regional distinctives, as well.

There was an article on the CNN website recently about the revival of teaching Latin in U.S. public schools…and many of the reasons were the same ones given for Irish (and I gotta say that Latin is one heck of a lot deader than Irish ever will be!).

I’m a big fan of early language teaching. One of the reasons my daughter’s in the school she’s in is they start teaching Spanish in kindergarten and Latin in fourth grade.

Redwolf

On 2002-11-19 12:13, Redwolf wrote:
(and I gotta say that Latin is one heck of a lot deader than Irish ever will be!).

The one I always appreciated while taking Latin was:

“Latin is a language as dead as dead can be; first it killed the Romans and now it’s killing me.”

On 2002-11-19 12:21, MandoPaul wrote:

On 2002-11-19 12:13, Redwolf wrote:
(and I gotta say that Latin is one heck of a lot deader than Irish ever will be!).

The one I always appreciated while taking Latin was:

“Latin is a language as dead as dead can be; first it killed the Romans and now it’s killing me.”

LOL! I remember that one…I especially appreciated it when learning lists of declensions!

I love Latin, however, and have never regretted studying it (it’s been invaluable to me, as something of a wordsmith).

Redwolf

The “new world order,” the Bush code word for the modern-day Anglo-American Empire, has nothing to offer future generations but sterile plastic shopping malls, mindless consumerism, deliberate dumbing down of the schools, frankenfoods, forced immunizations, and Orwellian doublespeak (“homeland security” - yeah, roight) – and all of the present nightmare has been financed by the London/New York banking cartel’s sin of usury (unpayable debt), the ONLY sin which impelled our Lord to His only act of violence, driving the moneychangers out, and overturning their tables (q.v.).

Why learn Irish? Turn that inquiry right around: why waste your time learning any more about the truly dying culture, bankerdom’s “modern” capitalism (that treadmill to oblivion), or its Mr. Hyde shadow, Marxism?

Type “Christian distributism” into your search engine for a true alternative to capitalism & communism, and if you like what you see, go read ECONOMICS FOR HELEN, by H. Belloc. It may greatly motivate you, to learn more about our native Irish language & culture.

The future looks bright, for all Gaels …

ádh mór anois,
brían ó c.

The “new world order,” the Bush code word for the modern-day Anglo-American Empire, has nothing to offer future generations but sterile plastic shopping malls, mindless consumerism, deliberate dumbing down of the schools, frankenfoods, forced immunizations, and Orwellian doublespeak (“homeland security” - yeah, roight) – and all of the present nightmare has been financed by the London/New York banking cartel’s sin of usury (unpayable debt), the ONLY sin which impelled our Lord to His only act of violence, driving the moneychangers out, and overturning their tables (q.v.).

Why learn Irish? Turn that inquiry right around: why waste your time learning any more about the truly dying culture, bankerdom’s “modern” capitalism (that treadmill to oblivion), or its Mr. Hyde shadow, Marxism?

Type “Christian distributism” into your search engine for a true alternative to capitalism & communism, and if you like what you see, go read ECONOMICS FOR HELEN, by H. Belloc. It may greatly motivate you, to learn more about our native Irish language & culture.

The future looks bright, for all Gaels …

ádh mór anois,
brían ó c.

Um, right here I would like to relinquish responsibility for this thread, which I thought was supposed to be a funny one and seems to be turning into another argument. :frowning:

On 2002-11-19 13:11, brian_k wrote:
The “new world order,” the Bush code word for the modern-day Anglo-American Empire

The Anglo-American heritage is as good as any other. Consumerism, usury (though, you might also compare Christ’s teaching in St. Luke’s Gospel 19:23), and materialism are no doubt uncommendable, just as socialism is uncommendable. It is easier to play the cultural blame game, than to tackle societal ills that are far greater than ourselves.

So they’ll be able to explain to non-Irish people exactly why we tend to say “I’m after talking to him” instead of “I’ve just talked to him.”

Okay, why? I’ve wondered this before. It’s very colorful, but I’ve never understood it.

Susan

On 2002-11-19 13:11, brian_k wrote:
The “new world order,” the Bush code word for the modern-day Anglo-American Empire, has nothing to offer future generations but sterile plastic shopping malls, mindless consumerism, deliberate dumbing down of the schools, frankenfoods, forced immunizations, and Orwellian doublespeak (“homeland security” - yeah, roight) – and all of the present nightmare has been financed by the London/New York banking cartel’s sin of usury (unpayable debt), the ONLY sin which impelled our Lord to His only act of violence, driving the moneychangers out, and overturning their tables (q.v.).

Why learn Irish? Turn that inquiry right around: why waste your time learning any more about the truly dying culture, bankerdom’s “modern” capitalism (that treadmill to oblivion), or its Mr. Hyde shadow, Marxism?

Type “Christian distributism” into your search engine for a true alternative to capitalism & communism, and if you like what you see, go read ECONOMICS FOR HELEN, by H. Belloc. It may greatly motivate you, to learn more about our native Irish language & culture.

The future looks bright, for all Gaels …

ádh mór anois,
brían ó c.

Ava can do as she likes, but I would like to assume responsibility for this thread right now. Thanks Brian for speaking your mind! Very cool. Of course I am not sure that I would like to trade Bakker for Greenspan, if I can be a bit US-centric.

Interesting question is: What does this have to do with language? Are you suggesting that teaching kids only English is like feeding them only BigMacs (or Igloo fish sticks, if you will)? Or is teaching Irish somehow a bit like teaching Creationism in addition to Evolutionism (Creationism here means teaching kid “Biblical” creation stories instead of scientific theories)? Apart from the quesiton how the world actually was created, those who push for Creationism in the US always strike me as having a political agenda: as wanting to use what is taught as a means of gaining power in society. I would not want language to be taught that way.

(P.S.: I realize that in a way “everything is political” so that response is precluded. :wink: )

On 2002-11-19 13:15, avanutria wrote:
Um, right here I would like to relinquish responsibility for this thread, which I thought was supposed to be a funny one and seems to be turning into another argument. > :frowning:

Speaking of amusing linguistic things, when I was a kid living with my foreign-missionary parents, my dad was preaching a Sunday morning sermon with an interpreter. My dad was telling a story about how, as a teenager he wanted to be able to buy a [Mercury] Cougar. But the interpreter just stared at him and refused to translate the phrase. My dad tried to explain that it was something beautiful and expensive, but the interpreter absolutely refused to interpret it. Later we asked some locals what they thought my dad was saying, when he used the word “Cougar.” They said, “We think he is saying ‘call girl’.”

On 2002-11-19 14:10, Bloomfield wrote:
Or is teaching Irish somehow a bit like teaching Creationism in addition to Evolutionism (Creationism here means teaching kid “Biblical” creation stories instead of scientific theories)?

This is quite nonsense. When a people has lost its own language, it will loose its national identity. It’s a question of survival for small nations. And there is no reason why they should be more superstitious or stupid just because they want to preserve their national identity and sovereignty. The interdiction of the national language has often been applied by imperialists as a way of oppression: the English did it in Ireland as the Germans have done it in my country. So, speaking our own language allows us to know that we are still our own masters.

  • claudine -

On 2002-11-19 14:55, Walden wrote:

On 2002-11-19 13:15, avanutria wrote:
Um, right here I would like to relinquish responsibility for this thread, which I thought was supposed to be a funny one and seems to be turning into another argument. > :frowning:

Speaking of amusing linguistic things, when I was a kid living with my foreign-missionary parents, my dad was preaching a Sunday morning sermon with an interpreter. My dad was telling a story about how, as a teenager he wanted to be able to buy a [Mercury] Cougar. But the interpreter just stared at him and refused to translate the phrase. My dad tried to explain that it was something beautiful and expensive, but the interpreter absolutely refused to interpret it. Later we asked some locals what they thought my dad was saying, when he used the word “Cougar.” They said, “We think he is saying ‘call girl’.”

:laughing:

Ah, languages is a splendid thing

On 2002-11-19 15:01, claudine wrote:

On 2002-11-19 14:10, Bloomfield wrote:
Or is teaching Irish somehow a bit like teaching Creationism in addition to Evolutionism (Creationism here means teaching kid “Biblical” creation stories instead of scientific theories)?

This is quite nonsense. When a people has lost its own language, it will loose its national identity. It’s a question of survival for small nations. And there is no reason why they should be more superstitious or stupid just because they want to preserve their national identity and sovereignty. The interdiction of the national language has often been applied by imperialists as a way of oppression: the English did it in Ireland as the Germans have done it in my country. So, speaking our own language allows us to know that we are still our own masters.

  • claudine -

Claudine! Nice to have you back. Hope you’ve been well.
I couldn’t agree more, of course: Language for the sake of cultural/historic identity is the reason to teach it and preserve it. That’s a bit different from teaching a language in order to promote a specific view.

Interesting case in this context, btw: The revival of Hebrew as a spoken language.

On 2002-11-19 15:21, Bloomfield wrote:
Claudine! Nice to have you back. Hope you’ve been well.
I couldn’t agree more, of course: Language for the sake of cultural/historic identity is the reason to teach it and preserve it. That’s a bit different from teaching a language in order to promote a specific view.

Interesting case in this context, btw: The revival of Hebrew as a spoken language.

Hello my little cutie-pie :wink:

I can attest to the fact that the ability to aquire language drops after a certain age. I took two semesters of French my junior year of high school, and now, less than 2 years later, I can’t remember any of it at all, and I had a difficult time with it when I was in the class.

Language is a funny thing.

I think I’m just going to start miming everything. Or maybe putting it into drawn story boards or something.

:smiley: