OT: Seabiscuit!!!!!!!!

Whistle
1

Have any of you folks seen this yet? Finally, tomorrow I get to see the movie! As a fan of great horse racing stories since I was a kid(actually anything to do with horses) the story of Seabiscuit has been one of my favorites. The recent book by Laura Hillenbrandt is wonderful.
Supposedly this movie version is supposed to be very true to the actual facts, as opposed to the horrible one with Shirley Temple, made in the 40’s I think, which was a real joke.

I think what is compelling about the story is the fact that it’s almost like a fairy tale…but true…and because of that , the whole nation,at the time of the late thirties, was captured by this little “ugly duckling” of a horse who was so great. Plus, the combination of the owner, trainer, and not just one but two extrodinary jockies, each one with their own incredible circumstances…it’s fascinating.

Trailers can be seen at - www.seabiscuitmovie.com/

PBS aired, and will re-air this Monday night a very good documentary on Seabiscuit, check it out at www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/seabiscuit

Also, this Sunday night , A&E is doing a biography!

I’ll definately be o-d’d on Seabiscuit by then :boggle: …now if someone would only do Man O’ War’s story…

2

I read the book, it really was excellent! Even if you aren’t a horse person, this is a great read. I’m a little afraid to see the movie, since there’s no way it can live up to the book but I’m sure it would be fun to see.

Robin

3

I’m really looking forward to seeing it. From what I’m reading, it starts out a bit slow, but once they actually get to the horse, it’s really good.

Redwolf

4

Yes, great reviews.

5

The book did start out slow, I have to admit, but if you continue, you’ll be hooked. It is one of the best I’ve read all year.

I am hoping to see the movie today ~

Mary

6

Saw the movie Fri. night, and while a movie can never do justice to a book, the film was very well done, delving into not just the horse and the people around him but also into the state of the nation duirng the depression and what inspired people about the horse. Very enjoyable film, found myself getting misty eyed and choked up in more than 1 or 2 spots.

7

My Dad just gave me the book Seabiscut for my birthday two days ago, and it is so good! I can’t wait to go see the movie!

Caryn

8

When I saw the previews for it during Derby weekend, I was SOO looking forward to seeing that movie! :smiley: (Haven’t seen it yet; have to wait a week or so until it comes to the theatres here)

Haven’t read the book yet either, but if the movie is great (which, I’m sure it will be- probably better than ‘Phar Lap’) I’ll probably borrow it from the library.

:smiley:

9

I saw it today!!!Yes, this is a wonderfully good movie. It stayed very true to the real facts as related in the book. This is what makes both the book and the movie so captivating. The actual history and circumstances behind this horse and his people, and what they accomplished together.

Of course, the movie was limited by time, and could not go into the stories behind the people quite as deeply as the book,but it did it’s best.These three were real live “characters”.

I did not feel the movie was a slow starter. Of course it initially laid out the backgrounds of the people and the horse, before they came together. That was necessary for true appreciation of the later events.

The race scenes are very exciting, the emotional scenes moving.


And yes, it is better than Phar Lap (IMHO) which was a good one. But, as in life, I think Seabiscuit comes out the winner here too.

Do yourselves a favor…go see it! :party:

10

Seabiscuit is definitely on the “to do” list for next weekend. Wish we’d seen it today, but I promised my daughter we’d see Spy Kids 3D (hint: Unless your kids are absolutely begging, don’t waste your money. Unlike the first Spy Kids movie, which was kind of fun, this one lacks any hint of a plot, isn’t remotely funny, has a totally schmaltzy ending and, to make matters worse, is very poorly done in 3D. The 3D effects were rather pathetic, and the red part of the glasses was too dark, with the result of causing raging headaches for most of the folks in the audience).

Redwolf

11

Whale Rider is very good, and good for kids.

12

I hate to be a wet blanket and put a damper on this thread ( and probably start a flame war), but I won’t go to Seabiscuit as good as it is reputed to be.
The thoroughbred racing industry is incredibly cruel to the horses. These animals are still basically adolescents when they run these stakes races, babies when they start training them. Imagine FORCING your 11 yr old child to train intensively every day for the Boston Marathon. Many people who raise horses for other types of events won’t even put a rider on a horse’s back for 3 years, let alone race them full out.
It costs huge amounts of money to train and maintain a thoroughbred so if the horse does not win lots of money the owners can’t keep them. Some are sold, but it is often advantageous from a tax perspective to declare the horse a liability, unsaleable, and destroy it.
I live about 30 minutes from Saratoga, where a lot of Seabiscuit was filmed. In late July and August, everyone goes Saratoga crazy around here, so what I am saying is anathema, but you won’t catch me at either the track, or a movie which glorifies this “sport”. Sorry.
If you want inspiring, sentimental sports stories, there are tons of excellent movies about baseball, football, etc, where the participants have the CHOICE of participating or not. I’m not a bleeding hearts animal rights person, but horse racing is the pits.

13

You could always go see Pirates of the Carribean. I hope this movie doesnt support the pirate industry :astonished: But you got to love Johnny Dep. This is the first movie Ive been to in many many years. Took my 15yo and 10yo to go see this and actually enjoyed myself tremendously. I’m not much into horse movies but I might go see Hildago or just wait for the video..

14

We saw Pirates in Spokane, and loved it! Pre-adolescent dd is a major Orlando Bloom fan (and we’re all serious Disney addicts…we were humming “Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate’s life for me” and muttering “dead me tell no tales” in line, to the bemusement of the other people waiting), so we knew it was a must-see, but I hadn’t expected to enjoy it quite as much as I did. Depp was terrific! I can’t wait to see Hidalgo either, just because anything with Viggo in it is worth a look.

Speaking of LOTR actors, Elijah Wood had a cameo in Spy Kids. I’m actually amazed that he would take such a tiny part in such a cheesy movie at this point in his career…I’d think he could do a lot better. Of course, I’m amazed that they were able to attract Stallone and Montalban too, but at least they both had major roles.

Redwolf

15

True, the Horse Racing Industry is not the greatest; as a true country-cowgirl who’s lived on a ranch since she was really young, I know a fair bit about horses. Yes, you don’t normally put someone on a horse until they’re 3-4yrs old. Of course, that tends to depend on the breed. Morgans (the horses my Grandma raises) mature late, so you want to wait until they’re at least 4 1/2 or 5 before you start breaking them in. Thoroughbreds tend to be “early bloomers,” so you can start breaking them in at around 2-3.

I do agree that starting when they’re just yearlings is a baaad idea; that’s why racehorses aren’t good for any more than 7 years at the max- their legs and backs start going on them early because of the stress.

However, those particular horses are the ones that LOVE to run. It’s been bred into them for centuries, and running is part of them. Granted there are exceptions to the rule, but ask any jockey on a good horse and they’ll tell you that when they start going, THEY’RE GOING TO GO. :slight_smile: Of course, horses have good days and bad days just like people do (they are more “human” than many people realize- tons smarter too).

So the long and the short of it is, yes there are not-so-good things that happen in the Horse Racing Industry. Uncouth trainers, sloppy jockeys, unwise training methods, ect. ect. But, there are of good things about it too; there are owners and trainers that take the best care of their animals, and jockeys that really know horses. Horses that love to run.

I’m going to see the movie. I watched a documentary on Seabiscuit on the History channel, and it truly is an amazing story. Great horses, truly great horses don’t come along all that often.

16

Paul has a point–The Biscuit’s blemishes–over at the knee, suspensory ligament problems–can be directly traced to running too hard, too often, too young.

Since Seabiscuit was never entered in any Triple Crown races, and War Admiral won the Triple Crown at 3, by the time they raced each other they were “adult” horses–still prone to injury, sure, but probably not the same overwork problems seen in very young horses.

My favorite sport/underdog/horse movie is Champions, 1983.

In 1979 Bob Champion (John Hurt), one of England’s most successful jockeys, is diagnosed as having cancer and is given only eight months to live. Through chemotherapy and extraordinary will power, however, he conquers the disease and makes a victorious comeback, winning the 1981 Grand National Steeplechase. Hollywood hokum, right? Wrong. True story and an involving, well-performed film. Although overly dependent on the standard slow-motion treatment, the race footage gives a good indication of how a horse and rider must feel, particularly one in as much pain as Champion. Hurt is excellent as the jockey, as is Francis, the woman who appears mysteriously at his side in the hospital and remains faithful to him. The horse that Champion actually rode, Aldaniti, “plays” itself, and a few of the actors are real-life track people too. The real Champion retired after the race to open his own training facilities.

Steeplechasers are mature horses whose bones have finished growing (as opposed to the 2- and 3-year-old flat racers). The race scenes in this move had me at the edge of my seat.

Kirstie Alley appears in the credits, but be darned if I remember seeing her.

Anyway–couldn’t put Hillenbrand’s book down–want to go see the race scenes.

M

17

If I remember correcly, however, Seabiscuit’s conformational problems (over at the knee, with an odd “winging” running style) were something he was born with, along with his quirky personality. He and his half brother Grog were major disappointments for their breeder. They were so much alike in conformation and appearance (including the same funky foreleg construction) they used to bring Grog out as a ringer for Seabiscuit to fool the press and the clockers!

Redwolf


M[/quote]

18

Yes, conformational problems can DRASTICALLY affect how good or badly a horse can perform. Secretariat had an abnormally long flexor tendon from his back to his hock (runs down the rumpus of the animal and connects at the hock), and that enabled him to stretch out in full gallop, thus wiping the track with his opponents and severely outdistancing them. Bad conformational problems, like twisted legs, pidgeon toes, sickle hocks, and you-name-it can create really baaaad problems in the animal later- loss of energy in movement, lameness, proneness to injury, ect.

I’ll never forget watching a documentary on this steeplechaser in Europe (the name escapes me) who had a severely twisted front leg. The owners were going to euthanize the animal, but a jockey said he’d take the horse, thus saving it’s life. The guy took years and trained the animal, and in the end, that horse was THE BEST steeplechaser in Prague. Nothing could beat that horse, even though his conformational defect was so bad, he should have never been used. The jockey said the horse used to throw fits if he wasn’t taken out and worked, and he’d just go and go and go until you told him to stop.

So sometimes even conformational defects can be “overridden” in a way, but that’s a pretty rare occurrance.

MVH, I remember that movie! Gooooood show!

19

The conformational faults present in Seabiscuit make his accomplishments even more amazing. That’s why he was initially overlooked- yes, he was “culled” by the breeder for those faults that he was born with. The same happens in dogs. An animal with such faults will have to exert much more effort to move than an animal that is closer to correct conformationaly, therefore it is less desireable. That probably partially explains why Seabiscuit died relatively young, that tremendous effort that he had to exert to overcome his conformational obsticals plus the hard, too frequent racing at such a young age. That had to have taken a toll, inspite of the excellent care he recieved after he was bought by Charles Howard.

I do agree that these colts are started waaaay too soon. And as I understand it, that was Seabiscuit’s problem early on…no one understood him and had the skill to work with him like he needed.He was raced 3 times the average number of times as a 2 yr. old. Of course, when trainer Tom Smith came upon him it was the beginning of his fantastic career.I also grew up with horses,(work horses and Tennessee Walkers mostly, although my last one was a Polish Arab). We never asked them to do any actual “job” at such an age. The early years are spent with training on the ground, just to get them use to the idea of what we expect. I am sure that these “green” colts that are put on the track have very little idea of what they are being told to do. But, once there, they race. That’s because it’s in there already.

So, Seabiscuit’s speed was INSPITE of the poor conformation, he had that overwhelming desire to “win”. That is “Heart”. And it is so true that this breed LOVES to run and race.They do it on their own in the field. Man just tapped into that desire that was already there. Just as other breeds have natural attributes that we find advantageous and by selective breeding, compound those characteristics.

And, not to excuse animal abuse, neglect, etc. … which as someone who’s spent their whole life with animals, professionally and at home, I truly hate…,there are bad folks involved in any endevor between man and animals, (or man and man for that matter),unfortunately. But, there are those who devote their entire being to animals, and there are those who give good treatment in between these extremes. I do not see this book, or movie, as “glorifying” the sport of racing. What it does glorify is overcoming defeat,heartache, and coming out on top, against the odds, by strength of spirit.

20

I’m willing to see things whether they’re right or wrong.
I went to the bullfights in Mexico–saw four bulls killed,
felt I had done the thing justice and went back to my
hotel sick at heart.

But it’s good to know what
you are seeing.