This is indeed a good approach for learning, but in actual playing you can also use tonguing and no ornamentation to separate repeated notes. There’s a mythology in whistle playing that you’re supposed to separate two repeating notes only by using finger ornamentation; I think the argument is that the whistle was historically used as a first instrument for people who wanted to learn the pipes, and you can’t separate repeated notes on the pipes without using finger ornamentation. But that depends on which pipes you’re talking about. If you’re talking about uilleann pipes, it is indeed possible (and common practice) to separate two repeating notes by stopping the chanter between each note: no grace note/cut/whatever you want to call it. It sounds quite similar to tonguing or glottal-stopping on the whistle. You can do it both ways (grace notes or taps to separate notes, or cleanly separating the notes by inserting stops between each note, no ornamentation), and I think most pipers, whistle players, and flute players would employ both techniques based on the particular tune and the rhythmic effect they’re after. For example in the Lark in the Morning I do use cuts to separate the repeated notes in the first and third parts, but use tonguing and no ornamentation to separate the repeated d’s in the fourth part.
These questions imply that “ornamentation” in Irish wind-instrument playing is akin to “ornamentation” as it’s used in “legit” playing (classical/pop/jazz) that is, something that’s not part of the melody, something superfluous, that’s added for decorative effect.
There’s very little of that in traditional Irish playing.
Cuts and pats and the rolls formed from them are NOT ornaments: they are not superfluous to the melody. They are part-and-parcel of the traditional style.
They’re articulations, a way to seperate notes instead of using the tongue.
Take a basic beginners’ tune, The Kesh Jig. How can it be played without cuts, pats, and rolls and still sound like a traditional whistle/flute/pipe tune? Take all the finger articulation out and it sounds like somebody playing Irish tunes on a recorder using recorder style.
Both uilleann pipe and Scottish Highland pipe teachers recognise the necessity of learning various digital articulations and they’re taught from the beginning as integral parts of the tunes.
It’s creating an artifice, to strip the articulations from Irish tunes and play them the way they would be played on recorder, accordion, etc.
Anyhow that’s my rant!
I did a video on YouTube showing various approaches to playing the basic beginners’ tune Sean Bui. You’ll see that the cuts, pats, and rolls are not only integral to the tune but also to the variations.
Check it out! Richard
I thought your point was perfectly clear – it just made me wonder if I was the only person using the word “strike” wrt whistle or if I might have gotten it someplace else besides Scottish piping.
I like to use the term “tap” as in “cuts and taps”. I’ve also heard or seen in print: pat, tip, hit, strike, and maybe a few others.
I basically agree and in fact wrote a very similar sentence on Bro. Steve a long time ago. I think you overstate the case somewhat in your subsequent remarks though.
How would you account for the fact that some trad players with impeccable credentials use far more of these devices than others with equally impeccable credentials, other than by saying that they are used for effect?
I’ve heard a few whistle players who don’t use rolls at all, for example, and if they don’t sound like Willie Clancy, Mary Bergin, or Sean Potts, they still play lovely and completely authentic sounding music.
Yes, in a sense stripping out all these devices would be creating an artifice. But you could also say it’s a way of exploring different approaches, perhaps even of innovating. I just tried to play the Kesh without any finger ornamentation, using only tonguing and the breath to make the tune work. I rather liked the result and to my ear it was nothing like what a recorder player would produce. (It was quite a challenge to stop every little cut and lift, mind you.) And a while back I recorded a roll-free Morrison’s jig to try to show people that there are alternative ways to skin a cat.
Hmmm… your ideology is showing.
But on the other hand: “In science, as in art and in life itself, to be true to nature one must be true to culture.”
I think it’s another hare brained idea to call all ornamentation ‘articulation’. Some of it is used to articulate notes but not by far all of it. Again here, terminology is not standardised, ‘ornamentation’, ‘embellishment’ and possibly others I can’t think of right now are part of the descriptors used. Some covering a wider field, some a narrower. I
think there’s a broader palette, beyond mere’ articulation’ at the player’s disposal when playing Irish music. As Steve says above, it can be perfectly acceptable and aesthetically rewarding to use a very sparse set but some really great whistleplayers players like Willie Clancy or Séan McKiernan can dress up a tune, make it talk if you like, with a wide variety of ‘things’, going well beyond merely articulating the notes.
Maybe we need a generic term? I suggest “thingy.”
Student: Do I need a thingy there to break up this string of notes.
Teacher: Yes, a thingy there would work very well.
Moral of the story: I thingy; therefore, I am. 
I have frequently used a whatsit …
Hahaha! I posted this original question because of the exact debate that happened here. I have several books and they all use different terminology and use. Also, I was listening to a clip of Spanish Lady on youtube and someone made a comment that rolls, cuts and crans(?) are supposed to be used instead of tonguing so that got me thinking about all of it. ( nod to the poster who mentioned that this fact can be erroneously applied)
Maybe I’ll just stick to putting thingies and whatsits in my tunes Purty-fy it hehe
Celeste
As someone who has no aspirations to play “ITM” in the “traditional manner” … this thread fascinates me 
That’s not to say I don’t play any old Irish tunes, but I’ve never worried about what I should be calling the “twiddly bits”, on the odd occaision I manage to fit one in 
It did not take long for the new idea to split into opposing camps. Will we now see a difference turn into a schism, into a war? Thingites versus whatsists. Fight! Fight! 
Putting rolls and crans into a tune like Spanish Lady, now that is an artifice. I’m not saying it couldn’t be pulled off successfully, but “supposed to be used”? You can safely ignore that comment, if that is actually what was said.
In my ignorance, I can find another can of worms to open if you just give me time 
Here is one of the clips in question and just read the comment below. I thought she sounded very nice although there was a little too much reverb or echo for me. (It’s ok if I post te link, isn’t it? )
I originally looked up a bunch of tunes in order to judge the difference in sound between whistles but a lot had reverb and it was hard to judge. This is my explanation for too many whistles now and I’m standing by it! 
Oh my. This looks like one of those cases where someone learned a tune from the sheet music without ever hearing it played or sung; one of the commenters says it sounds more Chinese than Irish and I think I’d have to agree. But as StevieJ says, just ignore the comment about rolls, cranns, etc, they have no place in this tune.
You’ll find a zillion heated arguments here in the archives of C&F over the degree to which sheet music should/shouldn’t be used for learning Irish music, no need to re-open that can of worms. Personally I think when you’re getting started learning, sheet music should not be used in isolation: you first have to listen to a good musician playing the tune in order to understand the rhythm, and then you can use the sheet music to help you figure out the notes. I think in the case of this YouTube clip, the person who posted it learned the music off the sheet and either decided to apply their own interpretation or at least never bothered to search for a recording of it. No amount of classical training or music theory can help you translate a sheet music transcription to an authentic-sounding Irish traditional tune on the whistle. The magic of this music lies in all the stuff that doesn’t appear (and can’t really be communicated) on the sheet. I’m not saying to not learn from sheet music, I’m just saying that sheet music shouldn’t be used in isolation until you’re at a stage where you understand the music. Experienced players can learn a tune off the sheet and make it sound authentic even if they’ve never heard the tune before. But it takes a long time to get to that point.
I agree! I’ll start mucking around with a song and then try to find several clips of it but sometimes in my ignorance I don’t choose right 
It can be hard knowing who is good and who is bad to the untrained ear. I have seen some clips of people who seem to think speeding through a tune is more important than adding a rhythm and lilt and the tune ends up lacking heart.
Anyway, I agree with what you are saying and that was what I was trying to do…I just didn’t make the best choice with that tune No harm done though because I haven’t even started playing Spanish Lady yet.
Note to self: Maybe I should stick with the Dubliners version to get the flavor I just found their version of the song and I even have the CD. How silly of me.
You have a Dubliners CD? Oh dear. 
There’s no hope…
Yes.
Oh, and I am, of course, a Big Ender. 
But considering that in addition to the Dubliners’ version, YouTube pulls up an excruciating rendition of this song by Celtic Woman, I think Celeste could do much, much worse
Ok, I give…who should I listen to? Yes, I have a Joanie Madden, Mary Bergin and Turlach Boylan but I have been trying to find other ITM outside of whistles. Something with fiddles, drums and such. You all would lynch me if I included Flogging Molly and the Dropkick Murphys (which I do have for…fun and it’s definitely not traditional) 
Hey, wait (light bulb going off)…are you saying that the Dubliners are more popularized ITM ? I guess like mass-marketed?
Personally I have no problem with the Dubliners’ version, but then again I grew up listening to the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem. It’s what you’d call “Irish Folk” and pub-song music, but Spanish Lady pretty much falls into that genre anyway. It’s fashionable for Irish Traditional Music aficionados to diss this kind of stuff, but it has its place.