It’s actually something I’ve worked on; I’m not as flat as I used to be. I may be bumping into the limits of my scarred lip, though. Ve shall see.
BTW, when I played clarinet, I was also consistently flat. Mebbe it’s in my genes. 
Hmm. I play in a session with at least three and sometimes as many as five other flute players. On the scale of relative playing ability, I’d put myself in the lower half of the group. Some of you have heard me play, so that might give you an idea of the standard of this session. Others will just have to take my word that we’ve all been at it for a good while. All of the flute players at this session play Pratten-model Olwells, although one of us doesn’t have a tuning slide. We’re sometimes faced with the challenge of playing in tune with an accordion, but not always because the accordion player switches off to the fiddle at times (and his fiddle is not necessarily tuned to his accordion). But we flute players are always faced with the challenge of playing in tune with each other. Interestingly, if you looked at the position of the tuning slides on our instruments (all by the same maker, remember), you’d see a good bit of variation between us as we play together. None of us is ever pulled out more than a half inch or so, but between the furthest one in and the furthest one out there’s usually a good quarter inch or more of difference. Patrick Olwell may have had a spot where he “meant” for the slide to be set, but I doubt that more than one of us ever would have the slide set there during a session. Yet we play in tune with one another. Probably not in perfect tune on a note by note basis, but good enough.
Another interesting thing: Over the course of the year, as the seasons change the positioning of my slide in order to play in tune with this session changes too. In the summertime, when the air is warm and moist, I’m pulled much further out than I am in the cold, dry mid-winter. If there is a spot where my slide was “meant” to be set, I’m probably only able to actually set it there maybe a quarter of the days of a year. The rest of the year, I need to work around it and compensate if I want to play in tune with everyone else.
My point, Loren? Simply that there are no absolutes in wooden flute making. There are compromises. And the best makers are the ones who can best deal with those compromises. Olwell is one of those guys. Don’t know about you, as I’ve never seen one of your flutes, but your uncompromising position does make me wonder.
I find it hardest to play in tune with other flutes; doesn’t seem like that much of an issue otherwise. Guess it’s a sonority thing.
I feel like the tuning is different between, say, my Murray and the Olwell and I have to adjust accordingly. It’s interesting where each of them has their funny spots. Overall to my ear the Murray is the best in tune with itself across all registers, but it sometimes seems to ring sharp when playing with others. However, it has a really different voice quality, so … ?
The mystery continues …
Wow, five Olwells 
– that’s one brave box player! 
Wow, five Olwells >
Don’t discount our bravery.
Not that it really matters, but my flute is the ‘Nicholson’ model. Just another example of what Cocus flute was talking about earlier. Most of the time, you can’t tell the difference.
B
Actually, just one loud box player. But I suppose there is also often a bit of bravery involved when playing loudly, isn’t there?
Yes, but you’ll be leaving the Olwell fold fairly soon anyway, Brendan, so I’m not so sure you even count any more in discussions like this one. 
Seriously, though, as to the question of getting groups of flutes in tune with each other, it often can be a pretty tricky proposition, and there are some times when we never do get there over the course of an evening. But usually we manage to settle into it after a bit. Seems to me that it’s easier when there’s a non-flute instrument there that we can all play off against in finding our spots. Tuning against another flute is like trying to hit a moving target with an unstable grip yourself. Flutes go sharp and flat seemingly on a whim due to how warm or cold they are, so it’s easier to stabilize one if the pitch you’re trying to tune against is coming from a more stable instrument. Personally, although accordions are fixed-pitch instruments I’d rather tune against a fiddle if given the choice.
I find it hardest to play in tune with other flutes
Cathy, I don’t know if it applies to you, and please don’t take it that way. It’s probably more true of the other fluters you play with. Flute players often over-blow the second octave. Playing up high requires less air to stay in tune, but does require a more focused air-stream. Brad Hurley points out that you blow harder on the whistle to get up there-but on the flute you do it with your embouchure.
It’s painful to be in a session with a fluter who over-blows the second octave. It comes out shrill and irritating. Accomplished flute-players, who listen, don’t usually have this problem. But even then, when you’re playing with somebody who is over-blowing you feel that you are out of tune- and you are: with that other person.
I haven’t found that Murrays and Olwells are out of tune with each other- in the right hands. Any flute in the wrong hands is a potentially dangerous thing, none more so than a loud flute. People try to make up for problems in their embouchures by blowing harder - though they’d get louder naturally and be more in tune if they tightened up up their lips and blew a bit softer.
Oh, absolutely! To me, it’s the voicing thing again. The flute and fiddle just seem to have closer tonalities, making it easier to focus on pure pitch when tuning.
Erm, no. I don’t think it does. 
If anything, the second octave is far and away my better one. I tend to overblow the very bottom notes; I’ve gotten in the bad habit of trying to get those big, ringing bottom Ds and Es, and push them too much, especially on a flute like the Olwell that will give them to you without even trying. But I’m working on fixing it. Naturally, it’s easier to keep track of at home by yourself and harder not to fall back into wicked ways in a fast or loud session or gig – but I’ll keep slogging.
Oops. I must not have said that correctly; didn’t mean to mislead. I wasn’t saying that Murrays and Olwells are out of tune with each other, I was just noting that my Murrays and my Olwell seem to require different approaches, and as far as tuning goes they have different places in their scales that seem to need a little attention (the Olwell C natural vs. the Murray’s for example). And for me, across the board, my two Murrays need less embouchure adjustment.
As most of us know, it’s a one in a blue-million simple-system flute that has a truly perfect natural scale; some notes are just truer than others (i.e., that’s why John Skelton suggests flute players tune to “G”; it’s a better, more open note). So basically, in my case these flutes have different voices to me and thus “sing” differently.
But since half the fun is trying to figure out what works best on each, I don’t mind. It’s part of the journey!
Anyway, hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
It seems the consensus is that both Olwell’s Pratten and Nicholson designs can give as much volume as one needs (with perhaps a slight edge to the Pratten, but largely depending on the player), but specifically, which one seems to have a stronger bottom end? I’m guessing the Pratten, but perhaps the Nicholson is equally robust in the right hands?
Thanking you,
Mark
Actually, I thought he was discussing rather nicely.
And in the 5 years I’ve been on the board, it seems to me that you like to disagree with about 95% of the people on here.
John
you can make that 96% now
John
Loren
Okay, it’s taken me a while to get back here…
Hey, I’m not lobbying for the abolition of tuning slides, just suggesting folks learn more about how their instruments work, so that they can make informed decisions, like "do I want to roll, lip, or blow the entire flute up or down a bit more in order to avoid a lot more corrections between notes? Or should I just go ahead and monkey the slide a half inch and work on my “lip flexibility”
Loren
You completely missed my point John (could you yerself be a bit uncompromising in your interpretations of my posts?), perhaps the post I’ve added just above this one will clarify…
Loren
Still with that said, I believe it’s important for flute players to understand what is happing to the tuning of their flute when they start moving the slide from its ideal position.
How do you actually find out, where this position is, practically?
I don’t know the correct answer to Brotherwind’s question, but I think the answer can be deduced.
Loren points out, pulling out the slide too much or pushing it in too much is bad for the internal tuning. So as long as one has a way of measuring the internal tuning, then one would just have to measure the tuning at different slide positions, and find the position(s) that give the best, or close enough to the best, internal tuning. I’d start with the slide fully in, and then pull it out in increments of 3mm or an 1/8th of an inch, each time noting the tuning. I’d expect that as I went from fully in to fully out, there would be a progression from less good relative tuning to better relative tuning of the back to less good again. I’d guess this could be done easily with a tuner, just noting the number of cents a note was sharp or flat relative to a standard. I’d also guess that the range of "close enough to optimal internal would be a about 6-8 (1/4 to 1/3 of an inch).
Loren also points out that it doesn’t matter whether I blow sharp or flat to do this exercise as long as I am consistently sharp or flat (cuz that doesn’t change the internal tuning of notes relative to each other). So I’d agree with him that it is worthwhile knowing where the flute has the best relative internal tuning. Once one knows that, then it is worthwhile to find the lip/headjoint position that allows you to play in tune with others.
Hugh
NOW, LET’S ADD ANOTHER DIMENSION … 
…
… The fabulous, but occasionally mildly effective, stopgap measure of slightly pulling out the other joints (usually starting with the foot) to hopefully equalize the internal tuning .
Told ya it was !
Kind of makes you wonder how some of those one-piece fife corps play together with only a cork to adjust.
Another option is to ask the question of the maker.
Some of them do have an ideal position in mind,
certainly glad to tell you.