Now that there is a flodded market of top of the line prattens on the forum, where are all you guys with top of the line rudalls? I mean at least one of you must be looking at getting rid of one. Particularily a nice Murray somebody out there wants to sell 
Sigh, I guess you never find what youāre looking for sometimes, and then when you find it ten more show up cheaper 
Now back to the subject at hand, I want to see some top O the line R and R flutes up for sale so I can snatch one up.
Give Bryan Byrne a call. Iāve got a keyless blackwood D of his, and its the finest flute Iāve ever played. Iāve played Olwell an Murray R&Rās for a month a piece during swaps, and they are close seconds, although the Murray was not quite as well finished. Wilkes and Grinters I hear are great, but I have not played them. Iād have to be near starvation to sell my Byrne. Good luck!
Matt
Nobodyās selling because R&R style flutes are so much better than Prattens that once you get one you just never want to let go of it 
I think also people donāt realize how hard Prattens are to play relative to Rudall designs.
Seriously, given all the flutes Iāve played, Iād have to say that R&R-style flutes (including originals) are just plain easier to blow and keep in tune. Pratten has this reputation of being loud, people want loud . . . so they buy Prattens. Then perhaps realize how much work they are.
Iāve got a Rudall and an Olwell Pratten. I love the Olwell, of course, but it is more of a challenge to play for extended periods of time than is the Rudall (barring the patent head weird-weight-distribution nonsense).
The other thing is that you get used to embouchure cuts as well. If youāve been playing a McGee R&R, and then you get an Olwell Pratten, for example, not only will you be dealing with a bigger flute, but a much different embouchure. I wonder how many Pratten-sellers changed both makers and designs when they bought their Prattens . . .
I assume most makers have preferred embouchure cuts. (Aside from folks like Terry whom we know make several different styles).
Iām not saying Rudall is better. I happen to love the Pratten. The Rudallās fully keyed and it plays like an automatic. The Pratten plays like a stick.
I drive a stick.
Stuart
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Stuart, except for the intonation statement; I think Prattens (or at least the hybrid Prattens Iāve played, like Hammys and Olwells) are in better tune than the Rudalls (again, Olwell and, well, Rudall). But, everything else is absolutely true; the Prattens take far more power to drive, and are much harder on both your fingers and lips. Rudalls are, for lack of a better word, more delicate. Lately Iāve been concentrating on the baroque one-key and the music these flutes imply; returning to Irish on my Pratten is a nightmare, particularly for my embouchure! Kind of like keeping in shape doing yoga, then switching over to barbellsā¦
Regarding Pratten style flutes and emboucherā¦
Thereās an interesting difference I noticed between one of Hammy Hamiltonās flutes made about 8 years ago and one made just a few months ago. Both belong to friends of mine (I should have mine in the next few weeks) and both are Pratten style flutes, though Iām not sure how much of the Pratten structure is retained in the flute aside from the single piece body. Anywayā¦
The newer flute was a much more forgiving instrument to play than the one made 8 years ago. The older Hamilton flute sounds more like what everyone associates with a Pratten instrument with respect to the āharderā to play aspect and requiring a different emboucher than Rudall-type flutes. I could hardly get a sqeak out of it in the first octave, never mind hitting a proper bottom D. The newer Hamilton flute was a different beast in that it was very forgiving with respect to my emboucher (Iāve been fluteless for a few months now so my emboucher is falling to pieces) and I had not trouble at all playing it solidly through both octaves. It was at least as easy to play as a Rudall & Rose patent head flute belonging to another friend and certainly as easy to play as the M & E flute I just parted with.
It was interesting to see the variation within a particular flute design from a single maker. There was a noticable difference in the emboucher holes of each flute, although at the moment Iām not able to recall which was bigger/smaller let alone any of the finer details. Like I said, intersting!
All the best,
Wes
Only two weeks until my new, fully keyed Grinter is in my hands!
Chris
I agree both Grinter and Bryne make great flutes. I got my first Grinter 8-keyed about 9 or 10 years ago and I had a keyless Bryne for several years. I also owned a keyless Olwell but sold it shortly after I received the āRolls Royceā (Grinter flute). Had a four-keyed Hamilton at one time but sold that too. Again, no match for the Grinter. However, if my finances permit, I would like a six-keyed Byrne. Iām after Bryan to make me one.
I think that each of these makers has come up with a different design so naturally they all play a little differently. I have played a Pratten Perfected flute in the past. Interestingly, neither Olwell or Hamilton resemble it; while Grinter and Bryne do play similair to my Rudall.
Also, I have found that tuning is relative. Each flute by these makers has itās tendencies on certain notes to blow either sharp or flat. It has always been up to the player to learn how to play a particuliar flute in tune.
I also have been fortunate to own a Rudall for about 15 years. It plays well in tune. It has better tone and tuning than the Hamilton and the Olwell which I have also owned and played for years.
This has been my experience.
My esteemed colleague Gordon has pointed out one of the holes in my argument.
I should have said that part of what I was saying stemmed from personally owning a period R&R, whereas my Pratten is an Olwell.
I also should say that I disagree with myself. Pratten copies that I have played have always been more in-tune than the Rudall copies. Or the Rudalls. So I donāt know where my comment was coming from.
Quite right, Gordon. Quite right. Maybe āeasy blowingā is king. 
Stuart
What Iāve found is that most modern makers, particularly in recent years, have better tuned their flutes for a more Boehm-like evenness of tone across the board, at the same time concentrating that tuning on the most traditional fingerings used on whistles, with the least amount of embouchure adjustment (get a hard D sound and basically play that way up to the lower 3rd). Older flutes tend to take more variety of fingerings and color shades, and embouchure control plays a bigger part in playing them in tune. This is not to say they are more difficult to play ā often quite the contrary ā but that they take some additional experience to play well in tune, at which point it becomes second nature for the player. If you are used to a true Rudall, many of the modern flutes will seem less in tune at first ā all has to do with what the player is doing to adjust. I canāt speak for Grinters or Byrnes, but if they are more closely related to real Rudalls in sound and feel, then maybe this applies to them as well. Which flutes play easier or sound better to an individual player, though, seems to be a matter of taste and personal approach.
This said, I agree that Hamilton and Olwell Prattens really donāt play like true Prattens, which is neither for better nor worse, depending on your feeling about real Prattens, and thereās enough differences between them as well to make these discussions go on indefinitely.
Gordon
Yes, quite so.
I think one of the appeals of Grinter and Byrne, at least to me, is that they DO play like Rudalls. Or, at least, they play like the Rudall I have. So for me, if Iām in Rudall mode, I can pick up one of those instruments and there is absolutely no transition. Even the style of embouchure is consistent.
Patās Pratten is another matter. For me, itās like Iāve put away the automatic Jaguar, and have taken the manual transmission (Bosch, of course) Porsche out for a spin.
Does that make any sense at all?
As I write this, and realize Iām not fully awake yet this morning, I do manage to realize how apt that analogy is. I feel like Rudalls are sleek beasts. Can be powerful, but you donāt have to drive them that way. Very smooth. Some inherent weirdness (vis-Ć -vis Jaguarās electrical problems). The Olwell Pratten is, for me, like driving a stick shift with way too many horses-per-pound-curbweight. Itās a lot of flute. It can be smooth if you drive it that way. It can respond fast, but you have to know it. Just different. Oneās a date car, oneās a trophy-wife-car.
Seriously, though, back to a comment you (Gordon) made about the embouchure. Is there something that defines or that at least describes a typicall R&R-style embouchure? Or a Pratten-style one? I have to say that my current favorite embouchure is the one Pat cut on my Olwell. VERY nice. Suits me, sure does.
Stuart
Well, no, I was thinking more about the human embouchure when I said that, Stuart ā Quite frankly, I donāt think Iām qualified to comment much on the physical attributes of what makersā do to flute embouchures themselves, other than to relay my feelings on the differences when I play them. So I come up with odd analogies and metaphors, too, to describe what it is Iām trying to sayā¦
So, I guess I know what you mean with your car analogies (car analogies come up often on this list, donāt they?). My Hamilton is capable of playing softly and sweet, but basically, it plays at its best full out. So that you can understand what I mean, it is a turbo-charged 65 Mustang. I canāt really play it when Iām tired or feeling lazy, 'cause thatās not what drives it.
Awhile ago, I was going back and forth as to whether to have it keyed or not, as I wanted to play some non-Irish music, when I came to the blinding conclusion that it really is an exclusively Irish flute, as it was made to be, and that I probably wouldnāt choose it, even fully keyed, to play anything more delicate or complicated than a good jig or reel.
Of course, shortly after this thought I went completely off the deep end and now Iām playing the one-key baroque flute almost exclusively, and spending much more of my time with a tiny embouchure hole than with a Pratten embouchure, Hammy, barbeque or original flavor. Now anything with a big 19th c. embouchure and tone-holes feels a tad exhausting in contrast, be it Rudall or a Pratten.
Meantime, I play the Hamilton in between sonatas, just to make my lips feel like rubber. The tone holes themselves start to feel a bit like bucket seats under my fingertipsā¦
Yes, I had to get in one more car metaphor. For the road, as it wereā¦
Gordon
sorry to interrupt the flute/car analogiesā¦
But yes Wes, I just recently ran into a fairly new 4-keyed Hamilton and it did seem different from what I had years ago. The keywork was far better and it did seem more responsive and smoother. So youāre not alone.
Hmmmā¦Hammy makes quite a flute for the price.
Also, I failed to mention Chris Wilkes in my previous post primarily because I havenāt had one of his flutes yet, but he certainly deserves mention (or praise) for his flutes as well. Iām still wondering about McGee though. Iāll have to testdrive one of his new and improved jobbies
Back to the car analogyā¦the mighty Jack Coen deemed my Grinter flute as the āRolls Royceā after giving it a test drive several years ago. It wasnāt my tag, it originally came from him.
Chris:
Tell me about the Grinter you are waiting for? I have about a year or more to wait for my 8-key in Cocus from him. And I still wait on my 6-key contemporary Noy (any time now)ā¦and for Terry McGee to finish the headjoint on my Rudall he repaired for me (remember the 2-year old son?)āI want more flexibility than the Wilkes headjoint it has
when I get the Noy and Rudall back, Iāll get some flute porn up with the Olwell Bb.
Later,
G
G, let us know when you get the Noy, Iām on wait with him as well.
Boxwood, 6 key, modern cut embouchure with insert on a traditional head.
Canāt wait, itās killing me!
e.
Will do e.
Iām heading back to the US in July, and will most likely just pick the flute up from him. though mineās in blackwood, that boxwood contemporary flute that I played of his was really, really phenomenal. Something aout the vibration of that wood that people have talked about here. Yes, thatās it. So immediate.
Talk to you soon,
G
G, if you did not get my PM let me know OK? Thanks, e.
Eilam:
Can you re-send the PM? I didnāt get it.
Regards,
G
G, I think the PM is not functioning, basically I was inviting you if you end up in this area (So. Cal).
All the best, e.
Thanks, eilam! Sounds just greatāI may just get to San Diego one of these days, which is probably close enough to the rest of So. Cal.
Same goes for you if you find yourself in China. Or if youāre looking to find yourself in China.
Keep in touch on the Noy flute. My e-mail is in my profile.
Slan,
G