Offtopic! Concertina Systems.....was McGee Flutes for sale

Irish Flute
1

Hi everyone. I haven’t posted on C & F for a while, but I still see some of the regulars from a few years ago. I’m selling my McGee Rudall Perfected flute because I recently bought a concertina for 3500 USD and I need the cash.
The McGee is in perfect condition and has hardly been played, probably no more than twenty hours. While I was waiting for it to arrive from Terry I got much more involved with the english concertina, and haven’t had the time to really play both instruments. I do love the flute too…maybe sometime in the future I’ll be able to find the time for both, and get another high end flute.
Here’s the info on it. It’s a great flute!

McGee Rudall Perfected serial # 286
Thinned head
Rounded rectangle embouchure
MK III new improved tuning slide
Short D foot
Special select Blackwood (additional charge over standard Blackwood)
D sterling silver rings
Mcgee Hardwood fitted custom case (Bush Box wood I think, very pretty)
Price 1250 USD, plus 20 USD shipping. Firm

Note, at current prices this flute plus case would be 1,690 USD! 1423 for the flute, 207 for the case & 60 bucks for the special Blackwood.


I’m also going to sell my McGee Metzler (serial #244) model flute in Gidgee. It’s more a medium size hole flute. Not quite as powerful as the Rudall Perfected, but still fairly loud. A bit sweeter sounding flute and the one I played most of the time. Thinned head. Integral foot, the flute is a three piece, the head & a two piece body with three finger holes on each section. Sterling D rings. No tuning slide!!! Soft case. The Gidgee has darkened up a bit and is a very beautiful dark brown with a fine black grain to it. I prefer this flute for practise at home.
600 USD plus twenty shipping.

bruce boysen b4bru@aol.com

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Dude, I thought you got sucked into a black hole or something! Er, well…you did say concertina, same thing :laughing:

Loren

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Hi Loren!
Yeah, I haven’t been online much. I haven’t posted on the bicycle groups I belong to in over a year. I post sometimes on concertina.net, but that’s about it. Good to hear from you.

Not only am I playing concertina, but it’s an English Concertina, not proper at all for Irish Trad. There are currently two debates going on about using an english for Irish trad, one at thesession.org & the other at concertina.net. It’s much like using a Boehm flute for Itrad, but worse.

Hey, do you have Grey Larsen’s “Essential Guide to Irish Flute & Tin Whistle?” What a great resource it is. I’ve been working through it with whistle & flute and adapting some stuff to concertina. I still have a few Water Weasels, one Mike Burke brass session D and a single flute (once I sell my McGee Rudall). I would have kept the McGees, but I really need the money badly right now. I have too much stuff so I don’t really mind selling it off.

How are things with you? Boston? Wanna buy a mountain bike?
bruce boysen

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Hey Bruce, I’m currently in the process of taking up the English concertina too! Of course, the whole English/Anglo debate kinda rolls off my back because 1) I agree that English can be used to play Irish, just not Anglo style, 2) even if it can’t, I don’t care that much because I mostly play at home for myself, my wife, and my dog (the cat doesn’t care), and 3) I have the flute and whistle for Irish, and I’m getting the concertina mostly for other types of music.

I almost had to sell my German 6-key flute (still have the keyless Copley) to buy my concertina, but in the end I managed to convince my wife that between the tax refund and my yearly bonus I could afford to have both.

:slight_smile:
Steven

5

Bruce,

I’ll try to send you a PM this weekend, to catch you up on things and shoot the breeze.

Best,

Loren

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Funny topic for this board I suppose, but I play Anglo and I really don’t know what all the fuss is about. There’s nothing about the sound or the layout of an English or a duet to stop you playing Irish music so it’s hard to see what the problem is. Must be the name I think. :roll:

7

Speaking of concertinas (we were weren’t we?)…I have a Hayden style concertina which, IMHO, is best thing for any style of music. It’s extraordinarily useful and versatile. It’s fully chromatic, monosonoric and can play chords easily. THe button layout allows one to play in any key using the same fingerings simply by changing the hand position. It’s as easy to play in different keys on a Hayden as it is to pick up a different-key whistle. I’d recommend anyone seriously interested in the concertina to give the Hayden serious consideration. I got mine from the Button Box. :slight_smile:


Cheers,

Doc

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Hey! I’m contributing to the thread drift and this is MY OWN THREAD. It was about selling my flutes, now it’s about concertinas. Lucky for me it looks like both flutes are sold.

Obviously, since I play english concertina and often play Itrad with it I agree that english is perfectly suited to Irish Trad. I also agree that if you want to sound like Noel Hill or any other anglo Itrad player, you should play an anglo. I’d tell anyone starting concertina that if their primary interest is Irish Trad, they should get an anglo. That way they can easily get instruction from tutors, teachers & workshops. They also won’t get any funny looks at sessions, if that matters to them.
If you play Itrad on an english you’re going to be much more on your own.

I’ve never heard Irish Trad played on any duet system. I’ve heard some great stuff on duets, from David Cornell’s wonderful, funny songs, to Nick Robertshaw playing Grateful Dead, which worked out great. All the various concertina systems have their strengths & limitations, even the Hayden. The only Hayden currently made, the Stagi, has a limited number of keys that it easily plays in, and the keys outside of this range are a royal pain to play. For the same reason, tunes with lots of accidentals are tough. No duet comes close to the melodic agility of an anglo or english, their strength lies in playing chords & melody together. I think the Hayden is an excellent system, but it’s no more perfect or better than any of the other systems. They are all a series of compromises, like every musical instrument.
bruce boysen

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Bruce,

Glad your flutes got sold…wish I could have bought them.

I agree with much of what you said re finding a teacher for and the charms of anglo, and the suitability of English for IrTrad.

However I must disagree (in the friendliest possible way :smiley: ) with your assesssment of the Hayden. I play anglo and Hayden and find the Hayden to be very much more agile.

It’s outstanding for irTrad stuff.

THough I’ve never played other duet systems, My impression is that they can be a bit cumbersome. By all reports the Hayden is a very different bird.

My Stagi Hayden has been delightful and extraordinarily more useful to me than my anglo (which I dearly love).

You ought to give one a try if you haven’t already. I promise I’ll try an English first chance I get. :slight_smile:

Doc

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You ought to give one a try if you haven’t already.<<

Doc,
I have. I owned a Hayden (Bastari) for several months quite a few years ago. I borrowed a Maccann for about two years from a friend. I currently own a Crane Duet. I’ve owned and played English concertina for years and it’s clearly best suited to my musical interests & taste(?). The only major system I haven’t really played is anglo, I had one at the house for about a week and could play a couple of tunes on it, barely, from sheet music, so I’ll leave the anglo out except to say I have several anglo recordings that I love.

Based on this I strongly believe that all the systems have their strengths & limitations, as I said. One can make equally good music with any of them, though each system will make a difference in how that music is played/sounds. What I do object to is your idea that the Hayden is superior, to me this is the wrong way to look at any instrument. Is a fiddle better than a guitar? Musically, the duet & english probably are as far apart as a fiddle is from a guitar. A recorder superior to a whistle? Heh, heh, had to put that in there. It just depends on what you like, both instrumentally & musically.

I really do feel that the Hayden is an excellent system, isn’t that good enough? Someday, when someone makes a good one & if I have the money, I’ll probably buy it.

As far as other duets being cumbersome…NOT TRUE! I once asked a great Maccann player about how hard it was to work out where the notes live on a Maccann. It seemed pretty illogical to me at the time. He said that yeah, compared to the english it’s hard to work it out, but once you know where all the notes live, that doesn’t matter any more. It’s only a problem for a couple of weeks. I found that to be true when I played Maccann.

The english, crane & hayden are all very logical. If someone takes a minute to explain the logic you can work out where all the notes are right away. This makes them easier at first, but in the long run it’s no advantage whatsoever. Then it’s all about flow, and flow is dependent on what & how you play.

There’s a lot more to it , for example the crane is somewhat key centric (centered on the key of C) while the Maccann is much more key independent, so the crane is always going to be lots easier to play in C, but the Maccann might be easier in other keys.

I think it’s good to like your instrument the best but I think it’s wrong to consider it superior. Fair enough?
bruce boysen

11

I think maybe I wasn’t clear in my original post.

What I said was that i thought the Hayden was best for any type of music not for each type and not for all types.


What I was trying to express was how versatile it was.

If I go to a session and someon’s playing a tune I know in a different key I can usually play it the same way I always have just by shifting hand position.

If I go to a session and they’re playing a tune I don’t know I can play chords with the guitarist.

If I want to play blues or jazz I can. It’s just very versatile and I quite enjoy it.

Cheers,

Doc