Hello if any body is intrested I am selling (or trying to) a silver Haynes flutes 12290 from 1933 to see pictures of it go to
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3780084721
1000 Euros will buy you this flute
A posting to the FLUTE listserve might net you some interest. (Mostly classical, Boehm players.)
www.larrykrantz.com
… sigh …
Such a pretty thing. Such a great maker, such a great era … so little money. 
What can you do on these that can’t be
done on a keyed simple system flute?
I played one a couple of months ago
and there were these keys clacking.
And for me a less interesting sound.
I never got behind it. Yet I’ve
heard people say they are a joy
to play.
Sincere question.
Actually play chromatically, and play in more than two octaves.
By actually play chromatically, I mean there are some keys (like C#) that are prohibitively hard on the simple-system flute because of the way the keys operate. They’re not simple on Böhm, but they make a little more sense.
Probably other stuff. The keys don’t have to clack if they’re padded well and in good working order.
Stuart
Thanks. Do the holes on French holes (I beleive that’s
right) do much in the way of allowing slides
or attaining a ‘hands on’ feel?
Also the sound of these things, well,
wood is a lot more interesting,
isn’t it? Of course there is the option
of playing a wooden Boehm…
Again sincere.
I guess the French holes kinda allow it. Some people think the tuning is better on a plateau (closed) model.
As for the sound . . . I think they sound like metal flutes, which I think sound different from wooden ones.
But hey, anyone feel free to jump in and answer Jim.
Stuart
I play both types. I only play trad on the open holed simple system (5 keys in my case). On my silver flute I play classical, modern and a bit of jazz. I never mix the two. You can’t do trad slides or rolls on a silver flute (boehm) its simply not possible. You can do a lot of other things though and get an amazing range of effects. I love the pure clean sweet tone I can get on my silver flute - makes you feel like flying - and I love the warm rich full tone I get on my wooden flute. Although both are ‘concert’ flutes (wooden simple system being earlier of course) I’ve always thought of them as different instruments for different kinds of music and this works very well for me. 
Jim and everybody,
The thing that first got me hooked on playing the flute was its contribution to the amazing sound-scape of the modern symphony orchestra.
In the evolution of the orchestral sound, metal flutes had to compete with larger and louder brass, percussion and string sections. From Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven to Berlioz, Tchaikowski and Ravel, the orchestral sound quickly developed from a string-dominated sound (wonderful in its own right) into a large, multi-timbral sound machine. Listen to the flute section in Ravel’s “Daphnis and Chloe” Suite (No. 2) or Ravel’s “La Valse” or Berlioz’ “Symphonie Fantastique” some time.
The instrument gradually developed into a more projecting and more agile (chromatically) piece of equipment. It didn’t happen overnight, and I’m sure most of you know something about the evolution of the flute, but eventually, the “classical” (or, I should say, Romantic and onward) orchestral, chamber and solo repertoire began to be written for that metal-flute sound and technique.
This is not to say that wooden flutes can’t do it. I know people who play that repertoire on wooden, Boehm system flutes. And, a few who can play Beethoven, et al, on wooden, conical bored, 8-keyed flutes. Not easy!
It’s just a different instrument than a simple system, wooden, conical bore flute. Necessitated by a repertoire that evolved differently from the ITM. Vive la difference!
I have always loved playing my metal, Boehm flute, but personally, can’t abide the piccolo and don’t understand anyone who would want to. But Tchaikovski’s 4th Symphony or Berlioz’ Symphony Fantastique without it? Unthinkable!!
Elilzabeth
Thanks. This is all very helpful.
I do understand (now somewhat better than before)
why the Boehm flute evolved,
and I’ve been playing
descendants, of 19th century efforts by
simple system flutesmyths to
keep up with the Boehm.
I’ve read that, by the 1880s,
conductors simply demanded Boehm
flutes, so that was that.
I write in ignorance of Boehm flutes,
personally, that is, I don’t play em.
And of course if one doesn’t have to
play with an orchestra, and in lots
of keys, the acoustic and chromatic
advantages diminish somewhat.
Well, I suppose if I had had classical training
on a Boehm I would have a very different
perspective. Thanks again!
It’s true, an orchestral flutist has to be able play loudly enough to rise above the orchestra for solo playing. I happen to have a modern wood Powell flute (Verne Q) that I use sometimes for orchestral playing. Powell has tried to make it so it’s the best of both worlds - it has a wonderful, warm sound you can only get from wood, but it’s designed to play like a modern orchestral flute. Even so, it’s still doesn’t seem to carry quite as well as my silver flute. I’m not sure why.
As Elizabeth said, the chromatic demands of modern orchestral literature pretty much demand a Boehm-style flute. Still, I have a keyless Casey Burns folk flute that has it’s own charm. There’s something really special about the simplicity of a keyless flute, and I enjoy the sound and feel of a conical bore flute. I agree with Elizabeth - Vive la difference!
Dana
I too have been thinking of this a lot lately. I got my first flute thanks to my first hearing of irish session music. Starting with a low susato whistle four years ago, I got my first Tony Dixon 3 piece a year and a half ago. Immediately I stopped playing the whistle because of how rich the tone was on a flute by comparison. Now, I’ve also purchased some Paddy Ward D/Eb’s, a Yamaha concert flute, and started music school this semester as a means to really learn the modern concert flute better (heck, the more variety, the better all your playing will be, right!?!?!).
Well, yesterday I attended a “flute fair” extravaganza, and got my first chance to hear some very accomplished silver flute players. It was easy to hear what I did and didn’t like about their style in particular, and the comparison of the tone generated by some of these long-timers. I realized that acoustically I like the idea of being able to project a loud and very rich tone from a metal flute (esp. with some warm gold somewhere in the headjoint!). Boehm realized that the bigger the toneholes, the less resistance for air vibrations, and the fuller the sound. Artistically, learning some things about what compromises are made in flute design makes a Boehm flute make a lot of sense to me.
However, you can’t get away from how good wood sounds and feels in your hands, and I am mostly drawn to warm, complex, dark tones in flutes, rather then the oft-incredibly bright and cut-through classical playing style. So, adding things like a grenadilla Chris Abell or Mark Hoza headjoint to a Boehm flute seems like an excellent idea! If even just to have one in your collection of flutes. I am definitely of the mindset that there is no one perfect flute for all sonic desires.
Jim, there was an interesting thread on thesession.org about ornaments on ochestral flutes.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1558/comments
There’s not much you can’t do with a Boehm versus a simple system, but the biggest immediate problem is the fact that F natural is fingered with RH1, instead of F#. And you must play F# on a Boehm flute the non-classically-recommended way, in order to make it useful for ornamentation in irish music. But you can honk, roll, cut, tap, and crann to your heart’s content as far as I’m concerned. Breathy ornaments (like honking) definitely sound different on a cylindrical bored instrument, again, I’m assuming, due to the resistance of the bore (please correct me if I’m wrong someone). Glissando on a Boehm flute is different certainly, but entirely possible via half-holing, gradual raising of the keys and/or lipping as well I presume. I definitely don’t agree that these ornaments simply aren’t possible.
I find that there are plenty of tonal colours available in the Boehm flute to make it sound interesting, and I’m still figuring out what’s available since I’m learning a real embrochure finally, intead of the one I invented. It’s changing the sound of all my flutes drastically.
I’d also recommend reading Boehm’s “The Flute and Flute-Playing” (short) or Bates’ “The Flute” (much longer) as they contain a lot of great information about why the modern flute was designed as it is and a great history of flutes over the past few centuries, respectively.
happy fluting all!!
Chris Norman does quite well playing up in the third octave (to high a!!) on his album “Man with the Wooden Flute”, the track entitled “The Belle of the Stage”. A sample score for this tune is on JC’s tune finder as well.
The old flutes were designed for orchestral music too, so they had to be able to play up there.
Yeah, but you can do it arguably better, and definitely easier, on a Böhm system flute.
There are reasons, ones we may not like to admit, that the Böhm system supplanted the simple system.
Stuart
true enough!
I put my Armstrong on the shelf a few years ago to concentrate on the wooden flute. I’m getting back to the silver for the chromatic flavor and for different genres. A friend plays both every day (professional and flute teacher at a college) and claims there is no difference in the embouchure requirements. There are any number of challenges to this statement. Any comments here?
BillG
I’ve just started back playing a Mateki silver flute, and although no one’s ever quibbled with the sound I get out of my wooden flute, the silver flute quickly told me how lazy my lip had gotten! 
Anyway, the comparisons – and contrasts – have been interesting.
how so Cathy? in what way “lazy”? what did you need to do differently for Boehm flute?
i just speculated in the “good tone” thread that classical flute technique may be quite different from some forms of “Irish” blowing. Robert Dick is quoted on a Larry Krantz webpage saying that reed players moving to classical flute must change from blowing at the center of resistance to the center of maximal airflow. i wonder if some “Irish” styles (Rudally?) may be working w/ the wooden flute’s center of resistance, more like reeds perhaps?
enjoy! /dan
Hey, bang –
I keep writing these long and wandering treatise-type responses to your question that unfortunately make no sense the next day. This one may not either, but here we go: The main reason I know I’m out of shape is that my mouth hurts after playing the silver flute for even just 20 minutes!
Basically, I think what’s happening is that the kind of tone & sound I want out of the silver flute requires a more variable, “athletic” embouchure than my wooden flute does. And since I rarely feel compelled to leap about above E3 on the wooden flute (and thus don’t have to worry about making that sound good thank-you-Lord), I’ve been skating – hanging out in a two-octave range, taking life easy.
But ultimately, I think some of this has to do with the particular tone qualities I want and shoot for on each kind of flute – I played classical stuff pretty seriously for quite a while, so I just plain expect more out of the silver, and thus demand more from myself. (Incidentally, it’s really depressing to see how much one loses in 20 years :roll:)
Finally, I personally think there’s more resistance with a silver flute because hey, it’s got a raised lip plate and thus a big old chimney. In part, I think this is what gives it such a nice range of tone – from dark and threatening to achingly sweet and pure, often within several measures.
Interestingly, while I can create a subsonic boom quite easily with the low D on two of my wooden flutes, I can push the silver flute even farther … but it is a somewhat different sound, with even more of an edge to it.
Uh-oh, there I go, rambling again. Anyway, off to muck stalls in the glorious mud, so enough of these lofty pursuits!
cat.
thanks cat. your take on the tonal possibilities of the silver flute has me wondering… maybe when i run out of things to do on the wooden flute…
enjoy! /dan