I’d say that everything that happens is a reflection on society.
That said, I have no idea how society is meant to process something like this. Absent any clear reason for, or cause of, the murders we can’t do anything to fix whatever it was about society that it reflects. Knee jerk reactions are far too hit or miss and would end up as exercises in scapegoating or worse.
Cran, sometimes you spout ‘stuff’ that really p*sses me off. Don’t you dare suggest that anyone other than the criminals who make conscious decisions to kill or rape or maim are responsible for their actions.
That’s precisely the kind of bleeding-heart weasel-speaking BS that the whining toe-rags make after they get caught and are brought to justice. “I didn’t mean to do it, society made me do it…” And there’s always some bleeding-heart mug who’s prepared to fall for it hook line and sinker.
Society didn’t hack that boy to pieces. Three people did. Consciously, deliberately, in full possession of their faculties and in spite of any pitiful pleas the victim may have uttered as he fled for his life.
I don’t expect you or anyone to have all the answers, and this problem does belong to each and everyone of us. However, without a viable and effective solution, this problem continues. Something has to be done to prevent it. While I do not advocate ‘death’ as the way to solve this issue, current rehabilitation programs (when they have actually been used) have not proven to be very effective… that is, from what I understand of the situation.
I’m sorry.
Don’t you dare suggest that > anyone > other than the criminals who make conscious decisions to kill or rape or maim are responsible for their actions.
I don’t mean to suggest that anybody besides these three people are directly responsible for their actions. They made the choice to murder. Case closed. But not quite. As a society we have the responsibility to punish these people, yes to help these people, and to try to stop things like this from happening in the future. In this sense, it is very much society’s problem. It has to be.
That’s precisely the kind of bleeding-heart weasel-speaking BS that the whining toe-rags make > after > they get caught and are brought to justice. “I didn’t mean to do it, society made me do it…” And there’s always some bleeding-heart mug who’s prepared to fall for it hook line and sinker.
Society didn’t hack that boy to pieces. Three people did. Consciously, deliberately, in full possession of their faculties and in spite of any pitiful pleas the victim may have uttered as he fled for his life.
Calm down, much? I agree that they should be brought to justice. You’re making it sound as though I’m saying they should be released into society or never even charged. I’m not saying that at all. I’m simply saying that as punishment we should not kill them or physically beat them or torture them.
The next time I’m over there I’m buying you all the beer you want. And dinner too!!!
What are you going to buy me? 
A scold’s bridle? 
Cannot stand the death penalty, waste of good parts that could bring others life.
Surprised that the issue of Hate crime did not show up because of the type of victim. Must not be in fashion in the UK. Never understood the point of those laws anyway.
It often used to be said that the law is a box. Stay inside it, and you have recourse to its protection. Where is it written that ‘society’ has a responsibility to help people who have deliberately, knowingly, and consciously stepped outside of the box? Where do you think the word ‘outlaw’ came from?
The last time I looked, there were 49 registered charities in the UK dedicated to providing support and assistance to convicted criminals.
The last time I looked, there was 1 registered charity in the UK dedicated to providing support and assistance to the victims of crime.
No it doesn’t have to be at all. And it never was, until the late 60’s when suddenly it became fashionable to jump on the bandwagon created by the multitude of charitable organisations bleating about criminals having ‘rights’ at the expense of their victims. Suddenly, “punishment” became a bad word, “Life” became 15 years and “rehabilitation” was all.
Consider this case when you think about what “justice” means to people: it’s a case where two teenagers dragged a young lad, kicking and screaming that he couldn’t swim, to a bridge, and laughing, hurled him into the river below (where he drowned).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4337895.stm
I presume that’s a trendy new nonsense along the lines of “whatever”?
Cran - I understand your feelings…
And I hate this to sound condenscending, but I’ve lived longer than you have. I’ve come to realize that unfortunately, there really ARE people in this world that are evil. There really are kids that, for whatever reason, really have no chance, no matter who tries to help and all the services they are offered. And at age 15, they probably are “lost” for life (heck, the one I knew personally - I was predicting his “future” at age 8, he was in the “system” by age 10, served a lot of his teen years in some type of lockup, and is currently in adult jail). There really are people that feel absolutely no remorse for brutality, and there is NO way they will ever be “rehabilitated”.
If life in prison really meant life in prison and absolutely no parole - that would be great. Unfortunately, it doesn’t mean that. It usually means 20 years and we’ll start having them come up for parole every 3 or 5 after that. Or it means that some governor on his last day in office can commute the sentence and the person can walk scot free.
Prison isn’t about “rehabilitation” - especially for brutal beings like these three. It’s about protecting the rest of society from them.
Oh - and if it was my son that did this? Believe me, 50 lashes or whatever in prison would be the very LAST thing he would be worried about. In fact, he would be lucky if he would still be alive to show up in court. And I mean that in all sincerity.
(I’m off to a festival all weekend, so if I don’t answer back - it’s not because I’m ignoring ya!)
Missy
I’m often irritated that I cannot run over Jay walkers. Outside the law, no protection.
Well I could buy you some bottled water because I’m not sure what you actually like.
I am not a proponent of the death penalty. It’s not necessary, and it’s not cheaper. Also, and most importantly for me, is that sometimes we convict the wrong person.
That said, I also am tired of this frightening trend of placing the blame on others than those who committed the crime. It seems that in our enlightened era society is less likely to accept the concept of “evil”. Crimes like this are just that. Whatever bad things may or may not have happened to the perpetrators aside, they knew exactly what they were doing. There are many more people who have been terribly abused who have overcome their circumstances. Enough with excuses already! T.V. didn’t make you do it! Video games didn’t make you do it! Your antidepressants didn’t make you do it!
And I agree with Cran on one thing. Our society contributes to this problem by not raising children with a sense of personal responsibility.
Actually you can. You choose not to.
You might even get away with it, unless there are witnesses that see you lining up the hood ornament and gunning it. Why don’t you? Is it because the irritation isn’t worth the effort, or because you are aware of the consequences of your own actions and don’t consider the momentary gratification of soothing that irritation worth the penalty if you’re convicted?
edited to avoid having to explain simple concepts.
I think some people ought to grow hearts, even if they’re liberal and even if they bleed.
I think some people need to grow them in the right place.
Removed because it was a response to an edited post
I’m kinda with Cran on this one.
I am totally against the death penalty for any reason. Why? Because
At the same time, society as a whole needs to be protected. Hardcore criminals ought to be put to work doing something productive for society, in perpetuity.
I confess I dont really understand punishment “for punishment’s sake.” As far as I can tell, there are two goods reasons to punish someone:
deterrent to prevent future crimes in the future - either for this particular perp or a potential perp, and
rehabilitation.
I do not see how inflicting suffering on someone else can be an end in itself. Exacting vengeance does not bring back loved ones or heal wounds - it does not lead to peace.
… I’ll use PM’s instead, if I feel like it.