Student Expelled For Supporting Corporal Punishment

Poststructural Pub
1

There were some comments about liberal intolerance in the Michael Moore thread, so I thought I’d fan the flames by posting this. Do you think it’s okay to ban (through expulsion) “socially inappropriate” beliefs? The next question, of course, is whether corporal punishment is really socially inappropriate.


LeMoyne expels man over paper
By Brian Hecht
Published: 1/25/2005

While students are guaranteed the freedom of speech, LeMoyne College’s recent actions against a student have raised questions of whether or not academic papers are the place to exercise this right.

LeMoyne College expelled Scott McConnell, a student from its Masters of Education program, for writing a paper in which he advocated the use of corporal punishment in schools, he said.

The paper, written for a class on classroom management, originally earned McConnell an A-. However, when he attempted to enroll in classes for the spring semester, he found he couldn’t.

“LeMoyne doesn’t believe students should be able to express their own views,” McConnell said. “If you differ from our philosophical ideal you will be expelled from our college.”

McConnell, who hopes to become an elementary school teacher, was informed last Tuesday that he couldn’t continue at the school.

“LeMoyne has handled the situation poorly,” he said.

McConnell was raised in Oklahoma, where corporal punishment was used when he was a student, he said. In the fourth grade he was paddled by a teacher for being unruly.

“It worked. I never talked out of turn again,” he said.

The issues that this case raises are very complicated, said Joseph Shedd, chair of the teaching and leadership programs in Syracuse University’s School of Education.

It is about more than just a student’s right to express their own opinions, he said.

“There is no clean dividing line between a person’s opinions and his or her ability to make responsible professional judgments,” Shedd said in an e-mail.

He pointed to change in socially acceptable behavior over time to illustrate that standards change. America has evolved from a society in which different genders and different races have been viewed as having different academic ability, Shedd said.

“SU’s teacher preparation faculty - and, I suspect, LeMoyne’s - will defend any student’s right to assert any position, so long as he or she demonstrates an openness to different points of view and a commitment to and respect for every one of the children he or she teaches,” Shedd said.

It would set a bad precedent if students could be expelled for their beliefs, said Joe McManus, a junior engineering major.

“I think you should be able to say whatever you want, so long as he doesn’t touch anyone,” McManus said. “Whether or not corporal punishment is OK depends on where you grew up. You should not be penalized for thinking something.”

“I wanted to go to school and LeMoyne has taken that chance from me,” McConnell said. He is currently in the process of applying to programs at other schools in New York.

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People should not be kicked out of school because they believe something. They should be kicked out because of what they do (or do not do).

We should not beat our children.

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I totally agree cran. His viewpoint proved no threat to anyone at the school. It can be disagreed with, but to expel him because of what he wrote (and got an A on) is just idiocy. I don’t think he’ll be expelled for long.

4

I’m confused… who is “we”… who is “our” ?

And what is meant by “beat” ?

As an aside, I read this morning about a professor at University of Colorado, who was giving a speech at some other school- in NY, as I recall from the article.

The professor is under fire for claiming that those people that were killed on 9/11 weren’t victims, but rather, “good little Eichmanns” (referring to the Nazi war criminal).

So - what should happen to that sort of “free speech” ? And please - bear in mind - free speech does have it’s consequences… e.g., it is illegal to exercise your right of free speech by yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater, as one example.

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Okay, so your decision is that we can ban socially inappropriate BEHAVIOR. I agree with that 100%. So it sounds like the conditions for banning behavior would be:

  1. the activity must be socially inappropriate.
  2. the activity must involve action upon another person.

Does that sound reasonable?

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‘We’ refers to ‘people’ (since ‘people’ is the collective noun that was mentioned previously).

‘Beating’ refers to hitting a child. Did I spell it or use it incorrectly?

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This, of course, is relative and would depend on what would be the definition of “socially inappropriate”. As was seen in this past election, this definition seems to differ from person to person.
In regards to the expulsion, the problem wasn’t with the student acting upon his beliefs, but merely his being able to express those beliefs in a written form. I don’t agree that should be done.

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That’s a weird story. Do you get the feeling maybe there is something else to it? If not, it’s going to be hard for the school to justify that.

Rather than expelling the guy, I wonder if maybe they considered having him bend over and grab his ankles and then striking him a few times in the buttocks with a board.

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Are you serious?

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Haha! Yeah, that would be cool. Whip out the “Board of Education” and take him to school.

:cry:

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Well, it is what he advocated in his paper… :smiling_imp:

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true, i believe people have the right to believe in what ever they choose. No matter how weird or gruesome it may be, or no matter what the majority thinks is right or wrong. They of course do not have the right to do whatever they choose, but that goes without saying.

Having said that, i also believe socially inappropriate speaches should be banned as well, like neo-nazi war-mongering crap and the likes. but of course, where does one draw the line, that’s always the tough part..

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Gosh, thanks for expounding on that.

:roll:

I’m left to assume… you’re advocating that no parent has the right to discipline their own child? Is that correct?

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BrianC:
I think that cranberry was responding to my question (note the inclusion of the quotation from my earlier post).


My question to Cranberry was a bit rhetorical - but I was hoping you’d (Cranberry) explain a bit more on the “we” and “our” aspects beyond the obvious… I was hoping to clear up some confusion I had on it, that’s all.

I am, though, as it happens, curious to know what allowances you’d provide for a parent to discipline their child.

“Activists” keep shouting about keeping the government out of our bedrooms… shouldn’t government be kept out of the family room, too?

And who decides what is “socially acceptable” - especially, as this professor seems to imply, that our social mores are changing?

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First, before anyone gets their panties too much in a bind, note that this is an article from a student newspaper (Syracuse Daily Orange), so it is chock full of righteous outrage and a little lacking in balanced presentation. It follows the standard formula for first semester student reporters – find a student with an issue, find another student to supply supporting indignation, and then find a faculty member to provide a pronouncement from a position of authority. Mix well, and quote what you choose. The story is conspicuously lacking in Lemoyne’s viewpoint, and one wonders if the writer even contacted them. I’d give the kid a C-.

Second, Lemoyne is a private Jesuit college, and they can expell anyone they bloody well please. Free speech doesn’t go very far into the private sector, be that private sector business or private educational institutions. I doubt that I’d last very long at Bob Jones University, but then, I’d have enough sense not to even try.

Finally, I can’t help but think that there must be other factors in operation here beyond the situation described in this artivle, as the Jesuits are some of the last people I would expect to see coming out against corporal punishment. (Just do a google search on “Jesuits corporal punishment” and see what you get.)

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The Jesuits of today are hardly the Jesuits of way back when. Not to mention that these “Jesuit run” institutions really are only nominally Jesuit.

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Slapping a child or striking a child with one’s fist can be just as psychologically traumatic as raping that child.

A ‘simple light slap’ can be just as psychologically harmful as beating her or him until the child bleeds.

I am, though, as it happens, curious to know what allowances you’d provide for a parent to discipline their child.

Grounding, taking away driving privaleges, cut curfews, no ice cream, time outs, no dating…there are much more effective and less brutal ways to punish children. We should never abuse young bodies and minds in the name of discipline.

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Agreed, Izzarina, but as was pointed out, they are private institutions, and it’s important to note (especially in light of the other thread about student’s not ‘caring’ much about the 1st Amendment, is that the 1st Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law…”

Telling a private institution who they can and cannot accept is intrusion by the government on the institition’s freedom of speech.

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OK, if a student teacher can advocate assaulting a child, what should the response of the school be to a student who advocates having sex with a child?

Should they be free to finish their program and get their teaching license, as well?

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Or, should it have to involve some kind of concrete harm to another person? Even there, it’s hard to draw the line. I mean, one five-year-old calling another a poopoo-head could cause permanent psychological scarring.

I do think that folks may be a bit over-protective these days. I still have a couple of pencil leads visible under my skin, courtesy of beloved schoolmates, but I seem to have recovered, and no one had to be expelled.

I feel kind of bad that most US schools seem to prohibit pocket knives. How the heck are the kids supposed to play territory and mumblety-peg during recess?

I grew up with pretty severe corporal punishment, and applied it less harshly to my kids, but I no longer see it as useful. It certainly never stopped me from doing things that I knew would lead to a spanking if I got caught, nor did it seem to slow down my boys much. All it really did when I applied it was to make me feel like I was in control, and I suppose it served the same purpose for my parents. As far as I can see, parents should find better ways to boost their self esteem.

If a kid can’t be controlled without corporal punishment, then it may be that capital punishment is the real answer. Get it over with early, and save society all the years of dealing with the little sociopath. :thumbsup: