Newbie, really disappointed with Clarke Celtic (Sweetone)

Whistle
1

Hello everyone. I really wanted to learn to play the tin whistle, as its such a cute-sounding little instrument, and also, I heard, relatively easy to play.

So having read through various review, I decided to get a Clarke Sweetone, as it has almost universally good reviews for amateurs (I got the Celtic version rather than the original Sweetone because I preferred the Celtic knot logo and also because it came with a a tune sheet). It just arrived in the post today.

But immediately there are several problems:

  1. It has a huge seam in the metal on the underside, which is really uncomfortable on my thumbs, even after a couple of seconds. It would probably give me a blister or callous or something if I were to practice regularly. Is this normal for whistles or is mine just badly made? Also, the seam sticks out 2-3 millimetres on the inside, will this affect the quality of the sound?

  2. Every note, from a C# upwards, sounds horrific. I know I’m a newbie, but are notes in the upper octave really that hard to play? You just have to blow harder don’t you? And even if it is an acquired skill, why does the C# sound so awful? In fact, only the very lowest two notes sound consistently good.

  3. I seem to have to press my fingers over the holes really hard and with perfect precision in order to get the whistle to make any kind of decent sound. Again this would be very unpleasant and uncomfortable after any length of time. I am a girl with small hands and very slender fingers, but children can play them, so I doubt the problem is with me.

  4. Should it really be this hard just to play a couple of notes? I don’t remember my recorder being being so difficult or uncomfortable.

Any information will be appreciated, thank you in advance. Also sorry if these are stupid questions from a stupid newbie!

2

Typical of Clarkes, I think (and something I just don’t like about them).

Also, the seam sticks out 2-3 millimetres on the inside, will this affect the quality of the sound?

In theory, yes… in practice, probably not (it’s the way these are made and my old Clarke C’s just the same).

  1. Every note, from a C# upwards, sounds horrific. I know I’m a newbie, but are notes in the upper octave really that hard to play?

No (you’ll get used to them).

  1. I seem to have to press my fingers over the holes really hard and with perfect precision in order to get the whistle to make any kind of decent sound. Again this would be very unpleasant and uncomfortable after any length of time. I am a girl with small hands and very slender fingers, but children can play them, so I doubt the problem is with me.

Perfect precision is good, excessive pressure is not. But afraid this probably is you and you need to practise relaxed precision and breath control.

  1. Should it really be this hard just to play a couple of notes? I don’t remember my recorder being being so difficult or uncomfortable.

No, it shouldn’t be this hard, but these are typical beginner problems which you can solve with a little time and diligence (+ maybe a different whistle if you don’t like the seam).

:slight_smile:

3

you should give it more time before being disapointed
its easy to learn but its not easy or even possible, to play good after just some hours
“relatively easy to play” is really relativly :wink:

you also should have checked what you buy
the sweetone (a nice whistle which i like very much) IS a cheap whistle
the sweetone is specail because its conical, rolled tinplate, thats one thing what it makes it so special, of course there has to be a “seem” in this case

all whistles never mind if expensive or cheap are not possible to play over 2 ocatves directly by a beginner
all whistles have to be hold the right way, otherwise it sounds bad and maybe your finger hurt after a while
no whistle sound horrific, its many whistlers who do but if one knows to play, he/she can make every whistle sound nice

if you want to make music instantly, get an mp3 player (sorry but its true)
if you want to learn to play the whistle, take time, dont blame the whistle and learn with a teacher or tutorial, there are many good ones, even free online ones

if you really like whistles and their sound, give it more time, and you will not be disapointed anymore
if you decide to do this check Tutorials like from Bill Ochs (book) or youtube for Ryan Duns Tutorials (and please start at the beginning and not with the second octave or so) :wink:
you also find a lot of knowledge here and teachers as well

by the way, check my signature, you can find a nice small beginners group (community) who learn online together, everybody is welcome to join

4

The nice thing about whistles is that you can easily pick up a few. Then it’s pretty easy to sort whistle issues from player issues.

I’ve never had much luck with the rolled-tin types myself. You’ll find many opinions here, but I’m pretty much in the ‘You Get What You Pay For’ camp — within reason. I love Freemans and lots of the other mid- to high-priced whistles.

For now, try an off-the-shelf Generation, Feadog, Oak or some such. They’re cheap and easy to find. Any trouble you encounter then can almost surely be remedied through study and practice. ‘Cute’, maybe, but don’t be deceived!!! :slight_smile:

5

Same here. I like their tone well enough, but the seam bugs me. If there were a reasonably easy permanent tweak for that, I might play them.

I agree with Peter, squish. Excessive pressure is definitely a habit common to the beginner. As someone once said, “Stop gripping so hard - it’s already dead.” :wink:

6

Hi Squish, I am new too, and probably not very well-equipped to handle your questions, but I have been reading this forum a lot lately, and have been doing a fair amount of research, so here goes. Bear in mind, this is kind of like the blind leading the blind.

As Peter said, the seam is typical, and I thought I would find it bothersome, but I really don’t. If you think it’s going to give you a blister or callous, I think perhaps you are gripping the whistle too hard. It’s as light as a feather and you don’t need to grip it tightly. My first whistle (and ONLY whistle until yesterday when a package arrived from Jerry Freeman) is the Clarke Original, so I’m well acquainted with that seam and have been playing mine for weeks w/o any issue..

Getting a good tone is very much a function of practice. While it’s not quite as tricky as learning how to produce good tone on a flute, where embouchure plays a big role, I still think it’s an acquired skill. It seems like a lot of newcomers to this forum complain about either hitting the higher octave or the lowest notes. While it’s certainly possible you have a badly behaving whistle, I am guessing those higher notes will come in time. I think you can’t be afraid to attack them either, even if they are a bit scary sounding. They have to sound like rubbish before they have any chance of getting better.

That said, whistles are relatively cheap, and fun to collect. No reason to not pick up a couple others for comparison purposes. You may find another brand easier to play as a beginner and someday may come back to the Clarke and wonder what all the fuss was about. :slight_smile:

Having just received three new tweaked Generations, my initial impressions are that they require more air than the Clarke. I’m not sure if your background includes other woodwinds besides the recorder, but perhaps you are just blowing too hard. Maybe you are blowing harder than you need to for even for the 2nd octave and it’s making it sound especially shrill. Or maybe you aren’t really committing to hitting that higher octave because you are scared of the note that’s gonna come out. :slight_smile: I know that feeling too. My Clarke requires barely any air at all to play, especially in the lower register. That said, I do have issues going above the high G. It sounds horrid, but I know part of that is being new to it. One other big difference I notice with the tweaked Generations is that the two octaves play more evenly and are more similar in terms of breath requirement.

Based on your dislike of the seam and the difficulties with upper octave, you may find one of Jerry’s tweaked Generations (or any other non-seamed whistle) more to your liking. I was able to get into the higher octaves much easier on my new Generations than on the Clarke. I think being a newbie, it’s easier to just purchase a whistle from someone that can vouch that it will play true so you aren’t wasting your time beating yourself up on a whistle that may not be preforming at its best.

Regarding holding your fingers down, again, I think you just need to relax your playing style. Make sure you are using the pads of your fingers and not the tips. Some have recommended using lotion beforehand to help encourage a good seal. I am a woman with average sized hands and I’m not really finding it being hard covering the finger holes on the Clarke…the holes on that whistle are much smaller than some other whistles in fact!

I would practice just going up and down the scale really concentrating on getting good tone, and then jumping from octave to octave. Don’t expect to get all of the higher octave to sound sweet immediately, work your way into one higher note every couple days until you aren’t wincing when you play it. :slight_smile: Good luck!

7

I think the Clarke Sweetone is one of the easiest players out there. Though, once I gave one of my old Clarkes to a friend of mine, and she had the same issues which you described (and also has small hands, just as I do). So it’s almost certainly not the whistle, but a matter of practice.

Just as Peter said, try to cover the wholes in a relaxed way. And in the beginning, maybe just play a few slow scales to get used to the finger positions.

So, when you’re grip is getting more relaxed, the seam might not bother you that much anymore (never heard of blisters, really :wink: …).

Concerning the upper register… well, it’s just a guess, but the recorder supports overblowing with the thumb hole, so you really just might have to get used to more breath control.

Good whistling!

8

Give it another 24 hours, at least :slight_smile:

I asked the same type questions… still do… and still am happy newbie :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

The whistle should be FUN, not a chore, yes, it requires a little discipline, but, keep it fun

Welcome to the whistle forum squish, (and LynnB) :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: and all you lurkers out there, come on in, the waters fine! :smiley:

9

Hi Squish,

Welcome to the Chiff n Fipple on-line community it’s great to see another beginner whistler taking the plunge :thumbsup: I remember thinking similar about the Clarke Sweet Tone that ridge was bugging me but then I realised it gave a place to aim for when placing my thumbs on the underside of the whistle so that my fingers could hover over the holes on top that was a plus. End result I actually like the ridge now I and have even managed to wear some paint of the two spots where my thumbs consistently rest on that ridge.

My Sweet tone is quite chiffly why or how this is I’m not sure. I don’t believe this tonal quality has to do with it being inexpensive as I believe it’s a sound that’s desirable by some whistle players.

So on the subject of being a beginner and how the Sweet Tone sounds. Seeing as we are both relative beginners (I start to learn mid June 2012) I have some short recordings I created with my Clarke Sweet Tone you can listen to and it may be helpful for comparing/gauging your whistles tone. Meanwhile have fun whistling and good luck on your learning journey.

Btw, beginner questions are not stupid, but it is stupid refusing to ask questions therefore remaining ignorant :slight_smile:

To listen Clicky Here

10

Fixing the “seam problem”, at least temporarily, is easy … a small bead of beeswax, poster putty, Blu-Tak or similar at each appropriate point where the thumbs rest will “hide” the seam. I used beeswax on a lot of my whistles (not just the Clarkes) simply because it made the whistle less likely to be dropped, whilst I was learning. I find I don’t need the wax now on “normal” cylindrical whistles, but it certainly makes the Clarkes more comfortable … try it, it’s likely to cost nothing and is totally reversable with no damage to the whistle :slight_smile:

Holding a recorder is “different”. The instrument is a larger diameter than a whistle so is easier to have a good grip without having to hold it too tight, also the fingerholes are mostly smaller than the corresponding hole on a whistle so they are easier to cover … possibly why they are so popular for teaching children.

Stick with the Sweetone for a few days at least. Practice several times a day for 5-10 minutes rather than just one long session and try to learn to play something easy well rather than worrying about the second octave just yet … it will all come together :wink:

11

just did practise for some hours on several clarkes
and, even if never before was disturbed by the “seam”

today i tried to hold the whistles with more pressure and even if i have big strong hands, yes it was uncomfortable and nearly hurt, but only when i did use much to much presure holding it

all the other time, and i did practise a long time today, it didnt bother me at all (i like to feel the folded material, it feels so handmade and original)

so, use less pressure or the posterputty hint, it sounds comfortable

12

I really hated my Feadog Back then…it was so shrilly on the high octave.

Tweaking helped and extra practice.

I have read somewhere in the C&F forum that it is 90% the player and 10% the whistle. I didn’t believe that before.

I stopped using Feadog back then as I didn’t like the sound. I shifted to Susato after seeing good reviews of intonation and
freeblow air requirements, which matched my breathing capacity. It was nice and water proof. Then I wanted a more metalic sound, so Dixon was my next.

After having different keys of a whistle and whistles brands, I have learned that

“Every whistle comes different breath requirements” and
“With a breath requirement comes a great responsibility.” :laughing:

I went back to my feadog and tried it again. It turns out that the breath that I was giving was large when the requirement was little to moderate.

After finding the “Equilibrium of Air” I enjoyed the tone it has created.

Equilibrium of Air is the point where the Air Demand of a whistles meets with Air Supply of the Whistler.

One thing you need to know is that Air Demand of whistle is Inelastic or Constant
while Air Supply is flexible.

13

Make a self stick pad from mole skin or a band aid to cover the seam where your thumbs make contact.

Ignore the thin metal that protrudes inside. It looks tall but is thin. Most likely it fit into a slotted mandrel to hold the flat metal before rolling it into a conical tube.

14

Add me to those who think you may be holding too hard. I can play a Sweetone all day with no problem from the seam. But, different folks have different sensitivities in their hands. Try the moleskin idea mentioned above. Or…you’ve found another use for Duct Tape :slight_smile:

The Sweetone is a very nice beginning whistle. The reverse conical bore will match well with your recorder playing experience in terms of how much support to give the upper octave to pull it into tune. But issue one is to get the finger holes properly covered. I suspect that is where your difficulties lie (along with the blowing issues already discussed). Start with just the top hole covered with your grip just comfortable. Be sure to use the pad of your finger and not the tip. Once the top note sounds comfortably then add the next finger and so on until you have all the holes covered. You may find that you’ve been playing in the upper octave all along rather than the low one. That will certainly confuse you and make the third octave seem hard to reach --which it is. Or, play some tunes using just the top hand until you get those notes going well (Mary Had a Little Lamb is not great music, but works well for this). For the second octave, try the E note (top hand down and first two on bottom hand down). Get that comfortable in the low octave and then experiment with breath pressure to get the upper octave.

All of this is a bit of a pain for some folks when they start out, but it is soon mastered and then you can get on to the fun.

Hope this helps.

15

Thats been my experience too. You’ll like it when you get used to it.

16

I don’t own any Sweetones, but I have a couple of Megs which I believe are practically the same whistles. The seam is something that may or may not be bothersome, but it shouldn’t be really problematic unless you squeeze too hard, as has been mentioned by previous posters. It’s common across many instruments that you’ll use too much pressure when you’re a beginner on that particular instrument.

As for the high octave(s), the Clarke whistles are conical.. which is, as I’ve understood it, to some advantage for the high octaves. Mostly for the tuning aspect if I’ve understood it correctly, but maybe it helps in general too? Certainly the Megs are the only whistles I have where I as a beginner (these were some of the first whistles I bought) could play straight through three octaves without difficulty - there aren’t many of my other whistles where I can easily play up the third octave. Not that I’m in the habit of doing so, but I couldn’t help noticing how easy this was on my Clarke Meg whistles.

-Tor

17

Some cheap whistles are utter dogs but you won’t know for sure if it’s the whistle until you’ve played a while.

You could go mad and splash out on a Walton but it might set you back as much as £5.45 delivered from Amazon.

18

The Walton??? You mean, just to realize how clumsy other whistles may behave, in contrast to the Sweetone…?

19

Wow, thanks for all the replies, I didn’t expect so many so quickly! I have taken on board all your advice and comments.

After many of you have mentioned that I must be gripping it very hard, I certainly did find that this was the case! I’m now happy with the seam since it’s an indicator of how hard I’m holding it. Discomfort = too hard. As other posters mentioned, it also gives the instrument an authentic feel, and an indicator of where to place the thumbs. I’m happy to learn that it’s just a feature of the rolled design, rather than badly made as I initially assumed. I actually did hours of research into the correct whistle (because I’m stingy as sin and don’t part with even a couple of pounds easily! :stuck_out_tongue: ) and never read anything about seams so it just confused me.

I actually don’t have any experience with the recorder! I just did a few lessons back in primary school, and I don’t remember anyone, even the really little kids on their first try, making the racket I did yesterday! :laughing: The only instrument I have any kind of experience with is the piano, and I picked up all the subtleties very quickly, so I assumed other instruments would be easy too. :stuck_out_tongue:

I can now play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star fairly well, whereas at first it was shrieking all over the place. It doesn’t sound smooth though. I’m also out of breathe by the end, even though I’m young and healthy. Is this normal for a newb? I guess my breathing isn’t very coordinated.

I can also play the upper (second?) octave notes okay-ish up to a G. What do you all mean about the third octave??? Is that even higher than the upper one? Can humans hear it???

A few more extra questions: (1) I can’t read music, although I know how to do it in theory. Will this be a problem early on in learning how to play? (2) Would a C whistle (mine’s D) be better for playing popular non-Celtic songs? (3) Does circular breathing, as used in the didgeridoo and now in brass instruments, have any use in whistling?

Once again, thank you all very much for your help. When this thread’s over, I’ll probably edit the title, because it’s not fair on the company that any casual browsers will get a bad impression of the sweetone.

20

Not really for traditional music. It’s a useful skill (essential if you’re me!), but trad’s basically aurally transmitted and many great players never learn to read.

(2) Would a C whistle (mine’s D) be better for playing popular non-Celtic songs?

Unless you need the key for songs or accompanied tunes, it would be just the same (though typically a little softer/darker-toned).

(3) Does circular breathing, as used in the didgeridoo and now in brass instruments, have any use in whistling?

No. It’s a useless party trick, very difficult to do on a low-pressure instrument like the whistle and completely at odds with the demands of natural phrasing!