Spotted what appears to be a good bargain on a flute on eBay, but I’m not sure of its origins, so I’m not sure if it’ll be any good. Anyone know anything about the flute, or the seller?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-TRADITIONAL-IRISH-KEYLESS-6-HOLE-WOODEN-FLUTE-wfr-/230488087956?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Woodwind_Instruments&hash=item35aa291d94
See the Link Above: BEWARE OF CHEAP EBAY FLUTES!
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34685&start=0
This “Mystery Flute” is the reason that link is there.
The flute in question is made in Pakistan and is almost un-playable.
Keep Looking!
What is quite disturbing is that not only do ebay allow unplayable flutes and pipes from Pakistan to be sold, but the seller has a gold star stating “Top rated seller”. Disgraceful.
On the face of it this looks like one of the ‘Glenluce’ type things - not the very worst table-leg jobs, just about qualify as musical instruments, these, but not good ones and likely to need tweaking to make usable.
Avoid. A Tipple would be a far better buy.
It looks like the music store does a lot of business in many different instruments. I am sure that they don’t fully know all of their products. One of their products might not be up to snuff, but their service and policies might be top notch.
Permit me to gently point out that several posts in this thread plainly violate board policy:
- Comment only from personal experience. No “people have told me…”, “other players have said,” etc. It may well be true that a poster here has stood around with a half-dozen very fine musicians and all of them said that Instruments by X are dreadful. And, admittedly, that would be useful for someone to know if they’re about to buy an X instrument. But allowing the reporting of 2nd hand feedback is a problem. Let’s say I order a whistle from Barack McCain and he takes too long to deliver and then I’m disappointed and unhappy with Barack McCain’s return policy. If I post about that and stick to the facts, I think that’s fair. However, it’s all too tempting, in my fury at BM, to remember that someone sent me an email a year ago and said they didn’t like BM’s whistle and for me to then post something like “People are constantly telling me BM’s whistles are crappy.”
Now, there’s an exception to this–I can pass on this kind of information. I, Dale. Why? I don’t have to make judgments about my own integrity. (I’m completely clear that I’m a shady and cowardly character.) And it’s my website. I’ll avoid being inconsistent about this, but I just want to anticipate that someone will probably find an example of me posting something like me saying that a lot of people have been in touch with me to say that some Acmes are out of tune or that some from a certain time period are inferior to others, or whatever.
- Regarding instruments, provide opinions but give enough detail about the basis of your opinion to be useful. This should be known to most users by now as the Pepsi rule. No global dismissals or disparaging works, like “His flutes are crap.” If you think they ARE crap, you must say why. What’s crappy about them?’
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/posting-negative-and-positive-comments-about-instruments/59885/1
The ‘Beware of Cheap E Bay flutes’ is also violating board policy, as it’s plain that the people contributing
are not writing from personal experience of many of the flutes they are disparaging. Indeed, some of these are known to be good, at least by me–e.g. Tipples
and Billy Millers and… I’ve played them, in tune, sound good, responsible makers, I testify.
There is no principle by which we can exempt from this board policy all flutes typed by region
or price range.
A bit presumptuous to assume the above comments are based on hearsay Jim.
No, not presumptuous. Kindly reread the policy, then kindly reread the posts.
Sorry, just don’t see it. Someone saying “Beware of cheap ebay flutes” is like saying “beware of spiders”. The writer would assume the reader had enough intelligence to know that not all spiders are dangerous.
Edit - having said that I’ll take what you’ve pointed out on board for future discussions.
Ok, within the rules I will say this.
I have played 2 flutes that were made in Pakistan. Although I am not a great player I can usually play the scales in tune. Both of these flutes were off. This does not mean all of them are bad, but I would say it is a crap shoot.
My thoughts, any flute that does not have some kind of identifying brand is a crap shoot (and some flutes with identifying marks are known crap shoots). I would venture to say this is true for antique as well as new flutes, keyed or key less. Unless you have some expertise and can tell that the flute is off and not you, stick with flutes of known consistency and quality, or buy from a dealer that knows their flutes, not a box store that does not have knowledgeable staff. In the long run I think this will most likely save you time, money, and frustration to avoid nameless sight unseen instruments.
In the gym, you see people do Romanian/stiff legged deadlifts with a curved lower back (crappy lifting form). Makes you want to cry. They probably don’t even have the slightest clue as to why they’re doing 'em in the first place. I’m not going to correct them because:
- Everyone signed away their rights when they joined. Therefore the gym member is responsible for his own safety, including obtaining competent instruction on proper technique. I take on a certain degree of liability (legal and moral) by providing advice.
- If I do, I’m being arrogant. Is it my place to correct others? Will I really save them from a herniated disk? Is the danger imminent?
- They may construe my intervention as being rude or a breach of gym etiquette. There’s no thanks in that.
- They may stop coming to the gym because they’re discouraged by the scrutiny or criticism. That ain’t good (plus they’re membership fees subsidizes mine).
It’s different if someone asks me for advice.
By definition, buying a “cheap eBay flute” is low risk. So why offer an opinion?
FYI: Romanian deadlifts
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/RomanianDeadlift.html
I dislike spam, I dislike people calling me on the phone to sell stuff, I dislike door to door salesmen interrupting my day selling unsolicited crap, I dislike sorting through page after page of useless crap trying to find one quality object. These all have one cause, it is possible to profit from people buying crap. It is a disservice to all. It can be discouraging to the beginner, produces waste, and raises the bar of skepticism that new makers have to overcome.
Playing nickel slots at the casino is also “low risk” but the odds of a payout aren’t good either. For about the same price of this unknown flute (which may or not play) there are practice flutes, PVC flutes, bamboo flutes, and perhaps a few others of known quality that are about this price range.
But he DID ask for advice…
OK, in line with Jim’s approach, from what I can see on the eBay listing this flute appears to be like certain others listed over many years, which I have encountered a few examples of (both this keyless kind and the related 5-keyed versions) in the flesh. If (and I cannot be certain) it is like the ones I have handled, it will probably be playable, and with knowledgeable tweaking maybe quite decently so. There are old threads (not just the warning Sticky) where my experience of this kind of flute has been chronicled on C&F. I recently met and overhauled and modified another of the 5-key ones which supported and reinforced my already expressed opinion. I have also hands-on experience of other stylistically easily recognisable flute-like-objects which have mostly been made in Pakistan and sold or re-sold cheaply on eBay and which are not in anyway playable as musical instruments, no matter how tweaked. This one does not look like those, but like the ones sold by Hobgoblin amongst others. Looks alone are not necessarily conclusive evidence as to the provenance and quality of any item, but to an experienced eye are at least a warning indicator - and the OP did indeed very sensibly ask for advice.
We have hashed over the whole Pakistan question umpteen times and the Sticky title was altered accordingly, but it is perfectly fair to say, without any inaccuracy or prejudice, that the majority of “Irish” flutes coming from Pakistani and Indian sources (just as many of the Bohm flutes now emanating from China) are of extremely poor quality and are not worth purchasing even at apparently bargain prices from any sales-source (eBay, shop, whatever) as the money will simply be wasted. That is not to say that all products from those sources are necessarily so bad or equally bad or that good ones may not come in future, but caveat emptor applies.
Perhaps it’s just me … but I honestly can’t see what’s wrong with calling obvious tat “tat”.
Wow, that’s a lot of replies…
I had suspected, after not being able to find a maker on the eBay listing, that it might be the kind of flute warned about in the sticky. I’ve found a good bargain on a Dixon 3-piece (similar price) that I think would be the safer option from the sounds of these comments.
Thanks for all the feedback!