one can always use half hole for Cnat -
I always use it for the second octave, for the first octave I use both half hole and 0XX 000 ( which happens to be in tune on my whistles) depending on fingering considerations mostly - of course YMMV !
ok y’all rock, i came on here and searched to find out how the heck to get my Cnatural in tune, and low and behold, here’s the answer!
so actually, it’s my Bflat whistle upon which i guess it must be the Aflat that is so awful. the 0XXXX0 fingering is the closest of the above suggested (in the lower register, i’m not messing with the upper yet). yay!
ok, so additional question: are whistles in certain keys more known for irregularities like that? i mean, the 4th of the 4th in any whistle is known to be somewhat dodgy, but are, say, Bflat whistles considered worse for that particular note? any other key whistle weirdness that i should keep an eye (ear) out for? did that make sense?
Yes, I think your question makes sense within the context that you have presented it. But no, the phenomena you describe is not at all common in my experience with very many whistles by different makers in different keys. Most all of the Bb whistles I have owned have been well tuned. There’s nothing peculiar about the key of Bb. You have not said who is the maker of your Bb whistle. Others players here may be able to share their experience on whistles in other keys made by the same maker.
It would be far more likely that a certain maker has adopted a tuning schema that they apply to their whole range of whistles and if the flatted seventh requires a particular cross fingering in one key it will most likely be the same cross fingering that works best for their whistles in other keys. Without getting into temperaments or anything like that how a maker tunes their whistles can be quite particular to their own thinking and playing experience. At the very least, any good whistle should provide a player with a usable and in-tune scale for the two major keys it will most likely be used. It would be nice if all makers provided a fingering chart that points to what fingering they suggest for the flatted seventh note since it is the only note in the second major scale that is not part of the primary diatonic major scale for which the whistle is designed. But that isn’t always the case. If the flatted seventh is dodgy then the maker may not care about the second major scale the whistle plays but it would be more likely that they expect the player to half-hole the flatted seventh note. It’d be nice if they were to tell you that though.
Many players will just suggest that you half-hole the flatted seventh anyway and skip the cross fingering. That technique works on most whistles, as highwood has indicated. But it is not always the most convenient fingering depending on the context in which the note occurs, such as B C D triplets or melodies descending from D to C to B where a cross fingering might seem more economical and sure sounding. So we use what fingering comes close for the C when it is just such a fleeting note and hope the intonation police are not listening.
Feadoggie
mine is from the Scott Boswell of the Flute Cart at the faire! it’s a susato oriole mouthpiece on his heavy brass body - LOVELY mellow sound that i’m quite enjoying, although i have a hard time with the lowest few notes, and then on switching octaves. he may have offered me a fingering chart, i don’t recall, but i didn’t make it home with one. the half-holing method may work too, but i’ll have to practice. i have skinny fingers, but fat finger pads!
i don’t see that he has a website, but here is his FB: https://www.facebook.com/Flutecart
From where I sit, Feadoggie has offered the ultimately best way to address this issue. There is no perfect whistle. Whether it’s from MK or any other maker each instrument design will offer individual concessions made decisively by that maker. I can easily agree that notes in the third octave are rarely used in ITM but if your interests lie outside ITM or you just want to venture into that third octave, even occasionally, you’ll need more than one instrument in those keys.
By way of example, I recently sold both a Lambe low D and an MK low D. I struggled with both decisions. There couldn’t be two more polar opposites in design. The MK has been discussed thoroughly as a unique sounding instrument that is very easy to play with neither a particularly strong but very well defined bell note, nor a very usable third octave, but in between where most ITM is played, it is incredibly bell balanced with that edgy, raw, MK tone and very consistent volume and breath pressure. It is a reasonable argument to say that if one could only have one low D and didn’t need that booming low D or third octave, the MK might be The ONE.
The Lambe has a touchy bell note but is phenomenally well suited to those seeking those birdlike sweet mid-high ranges. It is in tune without much need for non-standard fingering as far into the third octave as you want to go. Notes above second octave G through third octave F are breathtakingly beautiful. I dare say it’s the most cosmetically stunning low whistle I’ve ever seen, to rival a Copeland in that regard.
I was looking for a special combination of low D whistles to meet my current needs. I kept a Goldie, a Copeland, a Reviol and a Burke. All very different, all but one tweaked by the maker just for me, yet none of them does everything perfectly. But perfection is situational isn’t it? All of these fit where I am right now and get played at every practice and performance. These are not “better” than the MK or Lambe, they are simply my personal preference.
Half-holing always works and IMHO and produces stronger and clearer notes than any cross-fingering. There are also a few notes that AFAIK can’t be effectively reached any other way (D#, F). But what constitutes “half” will vary from instrument to instrument and hole to hole and won’t fit every transition well. It requires a lot of practice to master but is worth it. As Feadoggie noted, no one is looking that critically when playing fast passages where cross fingering is the best option.
ecohawk